Hey! I messed around a lot with sacred almost 2 years back but never got to finish any runs and my motivation for actually running the game died. But I did find a some new things. And it is nice to see some new activity on 1 of my favourite childhood games, so if you are interested here are some glitches and tricks.
Combo Master Menu Storage Tricks: So if you just do try and do menu storage on the combo master normally it won't work and only reason it works on the merchant is because the 'sub menu' for selling items. But with the simple trick of quick saving with you inventory open on screen you can store the combo master menu over quick loads. This allows for 2 new tricks, that mostly focuses on saving gold.
Free Exchange: By loading back after placing all 4 runs in you can do a run exchange without losing any runs or having any gold cost. Note, after loading you need to swap what rune you want to exchange for at least once before the accept button works.
Free Combos: By fully making and then placing a 4x combo into the combo build menu and then loading back before, you can build that full combo for 0 gold cost.
These 2 tricks mostly saves gold but that means we are in less problems of running out of potions and could go for less quest reward stacking too. Note about the exchange trick is that it is slightly slower then the double rune activation trick with the merchant, so it may be optimal to make half the amount you need with it and then use the merchant trick still.
Fly Clipping: When The timer for fly runs out it tries to put you down on the floor again and can push thro blocking walls that normally you can not pass thro. While this is trick kinda used in the current run, it can be used for a bigger time save. As you can use it to go thro the locked door where the switch to lower the water for the water element, the door you normally use to exit after you pressed the switch. Video of the clip: For the run you would use the portal, that spawns after grabbing the earth element, to go back out the dark elf dungeon. After exiting out the dark elf dungeon you will time it so that the fly runs out almost perfect if you active it as directly after going out of the cave again. But be warned if you get hit by slow poison you will not make it in time, so be careful of that. I have not found any other places where this could be used yet but maybe there is.
Braverock Tavern Sewers 1 Skip: This is a small skip that skips going down the actually sewers the first time you need to go down there to meat the prince. When you talk to the guy outside the tavern, the guy who opens the door, it updates the quest progression and dialogues. So if you have a quick save in the forest hideout you can move that quest menu over to that save and update so you can talk to the prince inside the forest and get all the quest updates there skipping going down the sewers. But this alone would softlock you later as the path down the tavern sewers is now locked when you head down there the 2nd time. and this can not be skipped as the quest update is a location trigger on the bottom floor. But what we can do is that before we talk to the prostitute in Braverock that tells of the guy outside the tavern we can put a hard save. if before we go down the 2nd load that hard save and move that quest back we can spawn that guy outside the tavern again and have him open the locked gate. What this do is that we effectively trades having to go down the sewers once for some loads screens instead. It should save a few seconds but is a very minor time save.
Local Multiplayer: Using local multiplayer mode can save huge amounts of time but can be questioned if it should be allowed, personally I think it is ok as it is part of the game but can see arguments for it not being allowed. But what this dose is that it allows the use of haven isle, from where we can get a lot of the portal location and save a lot of time not having to ride to a lot of location as well as make the run a little less rng like as we travel less areas with mages that can trap us. Also creating a character directly for this gives you a starting gold bonus (but no runes)
I mostly messed around with routing with this before and have a practically full route for this if there is any interest in running using this to setup portals.
Other useful information and small tricks: Maybe already be known but just in case.
The speed you can find on bots is tied to the difficulty, we can find up to 30 speed on silver, compare to I think 22 on bronze. This could make doing some early game on silver worth it. Also the speed difference can make you get hit significantly less. Around +28 or more speed is where a lot enemy's to start missing you because you run to far away. (specially with fly active as that extra speed too)
Poison res effects not only how long we get effected by slow poison but also how much slower we get and even a tiny bit of poison res helps a lot!
Knockdown Momentum Boost: When you instead of dying gets knocked down to the ground you get knocked away a short distance, normal very short before you stop on the ground. But if this knockdown happens exactly as you enter/exit into another area that momentum gets stored and won't be slowed-down/stopped until you get fully stopped by hitting some objects, if timed correct you can store momentum that flings you across the map in an almost instant. This is almost impossible to use intentionally but could allow for some crazy moment if a way to set this up consistent is found. (in local multiplayer you can trigger this boost without entering or exiting a area by exiting the game as it happens and the rejoining the game)
If you talk to a npc at the exact same time it get teleported away the game will glitch out and fling you around in hyper speed. I assume it tries to move you close to that npc but can't find a path there as that npc may be located in another area. I doubt there is any real use for this, but still fun.
Potential Future Glitches: Sacred is incredibly broken, mostly just because of quickload, but I yet to find proper ways to implement the 2 most crazy glitches into a working faster route.
Event ID manipulation: So I call this Even ID not sure exactly what it is called in the game, but I refers it to things such as: Getting a quest, Completing a quest, Quest rewards, Opening a grave, Entering different areas and Opening the portal menu. And probably more things. But what is interesting in this is that for example the game do not tell the game enter this new area when you go into the trigger to enter it. but instead says run event XXX or something similar. and then it checks what campaign your in and takes from some list what that event XXX should do. And with quickload it is possible to move quest progression menus (accepting quest or completing them) from 1 campaign over to the other, and when you click the accept quest button it runs the even id the menu should have but said id now points to something else now.
This is incredibly broken and can cause a ton of different effects, most notable that I have found useful is wrong warps. But there is possibility's to get quests too.
But there is 3 major limiting factors for this to be useful in a speedrun.
- The only thing I found to be able to carry a "Event ID" over to another campaign is quest related menus. This limits how many different id's are possible to move. But if another things could be used to carry a "Event ID" then this could allow for more things.
- The requirement for entering the Underword campaign is level 25, that is very slow to get to. The fastest way I found is to use the secret tunnel to go to Mystdale and do a quest reward stacking on 1 of the easy quest in there. But it is still over 5 min of just load screen I think. Also the beginning of underworld campaign is slow and I currently have no wrong warp from Ancaria campaign over to underworld to skip it.
- And that ties into the 2nd limitation, is testing. It's very time consuming and incredibly difficult to test this with brute force method and I lack knowledge on how to make tools for helping and testing this. And just finding wrong warps is not that bad but the problem is that you can not only get quest with this but also complete quest, but from what I have seen it is only possible to complete a quest you already have active, making it absurdly difficult to test for that.
But there is a huge potential for this to allow a crazy wrong warp route. because of 2 things, the hologram of the seraphim is always active and getting to it skips act 1,2 and parts of act 3, and normally this would be a problem as you can not enter the Braverock tavern but 1 of the few wrong warps I have already found takes you instead that locked of area (another into the seraphim area too) So there is not that much missing for this route to be functional but the what could be the biggest thing is that the current fastest way to level up to 25 is very very boring so I am not sure any1 would want to run it this way.
But if there is interest in this I can share the info I currently have on wrong warps locations and do some more digging into new warps and other useful things.
Object ID manipulation: If possible this has potential to be even more broken, but is very unlikely to be possible to use because of 1 thing, RNG.
So by object I mean everything from Items, Intractable/Movable props on the map, Enemy's, NPC's and even invisible triggers. All these things share the same type of ID to store them in memory. And it is super simple to mess with this, actually the current speedrun route kinda do this when we use the merchant to activate the same rune twice. We could also use the same trick to sell the same item twice too if we need gold for example. But what happens when we use the merchant sale menu to quickload back (or forward) a item to a time where said item do not exist? well that menu stores the id not the actual item and if another object in memory has the same id at that time then the item that we get in out hands is said object. This can let you grab practically anything the game has loaded in memory, you can place non item things in you inventory for weird effects, summon npc's to your location and much more. The potential is almost endless for what this could do as it looks like ground triggers is also given the same type of id.
But it is almost impossible to control the id of items as the game progress further on. But some ideas for how this may be possible to use:
- A fresh character have all start items in fixed id slots.
- It is likely the game prioritizes filling empty id slots over making new once. So if we can control so that we remove a id slot (drinking a potion?) and then update the game in a way that loads new thing into memory then maybe if we have a save before that we could load those potions into the future and have there id be the same as what was loaded into the memory just.
I think this is most I found, I may have missed something about the route as I know I found a few smaller things to improve on Bloodymary's route but can't recall what it was anymore. But if there is any questions or interest in looking into the more advanced glitches just ask, I still enjoy glitch hunting sacred even if I don't think I will make any runs at the moment.
Hello!
First, thank you so much for all the glitches and tricks you decided to share! I spent quite some time trying to find anything useful on youtube and in internet, but to no result. Alas, I'm in no way a glitch hunter myself, so most of the glitches I found are kind of of no use in a speedrun. Let me address the glitches/tricks you described.
Combo Master Menu Storage Tricks I did manage to store combo master menu, though in a little bit different(worse) way. Damn, I literally had no idea that inventory menu affects combo master one. Gotta retest how many ql's I need to make enough runes/money so that with all the following qls it's faster than it's now.
Fly clipping Nice find with that entrance! Should shave off a few tens of seconds.
Braverock Tavern Sewers 1 Skip Yes, this one should be worth it, though I have to spend somewhere time to lvl up my attributes now.
Local Multiplayer Idk this one I'm not sure about but I didn't manage to qs-ql in it, maybe there's an other way to do that. If it's viable I can make it into a separate category since this is just way too different from the current route.
Other useful information and small tricks Again thanks for sharing all of this. With wiki half empty and wolfe's lair focusing on lvling up, it's really hard to find anything relevant.
Not sure about speed&difficulty since I would have to export/import my character anyway for changing it back to bronze (faster kill bosses). And all quest progress is lost in single player.
Idk about poison res - what's better to not get hit at all (DEX and Defense Rating route) or get slowed less (END and poison res route)? Maybe I should go poison demon? It does not matter that much though since I usually don't have a lot of points to spare.
Knockdown Momentum Boost Looks promising, if I manage to use this to skip some of the mages areas, it's a blessing.
Event ID manipulation I see, so there's different Event IDs in different campaigns - Ancaria and Underworld. This's really interesting and might end up being a separate category.
Also about the problem you mention - slow lvling up to get 25 lvl for Underworld campaign: I thought of allowing the use of preset characters shipped with Sacred Gold for Underworld - Any%. Lucky we are, those include Daemon of lvl 29. So I can probably allow the same for this new category, something like "Ancaria Any% \w Wrong Warps".
Object ID manipulation Damn, so that's what stands behind dupe glitch (allowing to dupe/sell twice almost everything) I discovered. Nice find! Definitely something to look into once I get back to speedrunning.
Let me describe a few glitches I found to free you from possible extra work searching/testing for them.
Dupe glitch: You can dupe anything you can wear/use in Sacred. Just qs with item in inventory, ql with sell menu open, press no, equip/use item in inventory, put duped item in inventory - voilà, dupe successful.
Hidden stored menu (and moving with open menu): Apart from the regular menu storing there's an another way to do the same. Click fast on merchant/combo master/whoever else and then next to them while holding mouse. After you release mouse a menu appears, but if you don't you can keep moving with menu stored (there're certain restrictions on what you can and cannot do to keep menu stored, so it's not that good).
Also if you do the same but with a little bit different timing, you can keep this menu open, while you move (in previous case it opens only once you release mouse). You can even combine both and first store menu, then move with this menu open.
Invincibility: The previous trick allows you to become completely invincible by having a merchant menu's open (doesn't help from freaking mages' traps though).
Immediate spell recharge: Get a hidden stored menu while you have a spell in slot, then open this menu and the spell is magically recharged! This one I used in the WR run I think.
Right now I'm not actively speedrunning the game, but I do plan (now for sure) to return and get something like 56m or lower. I will return later this year, once I have enough time to derust, reroute, etc. With ideas you mentioned I cannot even estimate just how fast the route with wrong warps is going to be. Is it going to be a 30m run? Damn, that would be nice. Anyway, if you have the interest in glitch hunting, sure, go ahead! If it's not going to be me, then maybe someone else eventually stumbles upon this category and sets a new WR!
I also plan to make a few videos on glitches (so that I don't forget about them lol) to structurize the knowledge we have about them.
Local Multiplayer About this: What I mean with this is that you start the game in local multiplayer with Hack and Slash game mode (I think it was called this) Then you start at "Heaven Isle" can use the portals inside there to quickly go around the world and grab several of the normal portal location that will be saved on you character. You can also find a free 220 horse just next to a portal. After you have got all the useful portals you exit out and start a game in normal singel player by importing your character and you now got a bunch or portals unlocked saving having to run around a lot of areas, specially areas with mages. You can also use the shop in Heaven Isle to by a decent saddle with speed bonus as they are common in that shop. And after all this you can use a quest in Braverock Castle (finding a rabbit that a girl lost) for the level ups as it gives more reward and is faster.
A route using this could save somewhere around 7-10 min I think. But you are right in that this feels more like a different category.
I do have a old test run using this, tho it is using a very outdated route (Before I found about combo master glitch and some other parts of the route is suboptimal) and with a very very bad video quality. But could upload it if you want to see what a route with this could look like.
About speed and difficulty What you could do is start on silver, as you also get more from quest rewards with it too (at least exp). Check the shop in Belleuve for a pair of good boots then keep game on silver until after you are done the merchant and combo master in Porto Vallum. Then do a hard save next to the portal there and export. Then import to bronze and quick save then use that hard save to move the portal menu to your now bronze character and continue the game as normal on bronze from that point onwards. (Note: First actual quest the game checks is the rescue of Wilbur, all the main quest things before that are not required)
If you find a good pair of boots with this you should still save some time, even if it adds some extra menuing. And it also makes the run way safer as you get a higher level, specially noticeable as you need less gold and runes with combo master trick so you are at a much lower level with it.
For Poison Res What I did before was just to keep an eye out for poison res on gear and put that as 2nd priority for stats. If you do not find any gear with poison res then I think poison demon could be worth using inside the dark elf area and maybe the area before the demon fight at the end of the game, but only if you don't find any poison res. Not sure with END vs DEX think they give a very small bonuses only anyways. Unless we could find a way to get the merchant window working while moving inside the dark elf area, then we don't need to worry about the slow down much.
Hidden stored menu This is interesting, will look into this. From quick test I was only able to do the storage from a horse but could do the moving while window open without horse.
Invincibility It feels like mages notices that they can't damage you and priorities traps so have limited use.
Immediate spell recharge I think it is the combo master that refreshes. But storing combo master can allow for a spell recharge later on.
And the idea to use the preset lv 29 characters is really good, could make for a fun run with the wrong warps route. I am planing to start looking into this. And I would not be suppressed if a route using that could go down to about 30 min, maybe if a few more useful things is found.
Local Multiplayer I see what you mean, so I just open portals and get a lot of other stuff for free. I asked about this on forum, I might not have enough insight into speedrunning to be certain about this part. After all as you say everything is pretty much the same except that few areas are skipped thanks to portals freely available. The idea is kind of close to BloodyMary's initial one - first you make a character which you boost as fast as possible, then you export/import and start the route. Also Local Multiplayer is one of the intended starts which allows to go quicker into the game. I will decide on this after asking few other speedrunners, I guess.
Speed & difficulty I actually already start on silver difficulty, but do the export/import trick earlier. I guess if I use the trick you described saving gold for combos, then I should have all the money I need to purchase boots in the shop of Porto Vellum.
But there's the issue with goblins on the way: it seems that after export/import enemies stop trapping you for a few minutes (or goblins are more aggressive on silver difficulty). So if I don't use export/import trick, those goblins always catch me in traps.
Unless we could find a way to get the merchant window working while moving inside the dark elf area... It's possible - get a hidden stored menu, then hard save with it, and use qs-load-ql trick, or qs, load, get a submenu in merchant's window, then ql. Problem is that there's a lot of elves who cast traps as well, so situation is the same as with mages. Also you can't cast anything while you have merchant's window open.
Poison Res I see, yes, it should be worth to look for items with poison res.
Hidden stored menu Yes, forgot to mention, I found it possible only on horse.
I actually already start on silver difficulty I don't know how I missed that, was sure I looked for what difficulty you picked, well doing shopping in Porto Vellum should still have better odds for higher stats but it not sure if it is worth getting trapped on the way there tho.
it seems that after export/import enemies stop trapping you for a few minute This is interesting, could we not do the trip to shaddar-nur after exporting and just doing a save at the portal there and then load that portal menu into the main save to travel to shaddar-nur without getting trapped?
Another small trick I remembered is that you can open your inventory to shift the view point so you see much further to the bottom right. Can be very useful for avoiding mages in some areas, specially shaddar-nur trip, tho if export tricks works this may not be useful
could we not do the trip to shaddar-nur after exporting... Hm, I don't think it's possible to get to Shaddar-Nur this early after export (in the run I teleport to Khorad-Nur area after talking to Sharifa in forest hideout and from there I go to Shaddar-Nur later). But this made me think what would happen if I export/import before mage parts, then go through them untouched, and then save on the closest portal (this is probably just what you're talking about).
Gotta test this as well, 'cause I should be able to do this as early as DeMordrey's treachery happens (can't use it there in real run, because I do some quest stuff on the way). It should also be possible when getting to dark elf dungeon (might not be worth it, though I often get stuck there) and when I get to Shaddar-Nur (if works then 100% worth it).
Edit: retested, for whatever reason export/import does not seem to work on mages, or I'm doing something wrong. Every so often you get trapped if you export at Mascarell portal and then import and go from there to the Icecreek portal.
But there's another glitch which should help a lot with mage parts (and I forgot to tell about). If you F9 right after you hear trap sound, and then F8 you don't get trapped at all. It loses like 5 seconds, but is almost always worth it imo (especially if you avoid 90% of the mage encounters).
I meant you could export whenever to unlock Shaddar-Nur whenever, but yeah tested it too. I was able to run around a undead mage for about 30-40 seconds outside Khorad-Nur before they used a trapping spell. But as soon as I entered Shaddar-Nur area of the map the mages instant used trapping spells.
Another way that you can cancel traps is by getting off your horse, you can instantly run again. Not sure it is worth it in a normal run tho as your run speed is soo much lower.
Also I rewatched your run again and last time I skipped the shaddar fight part but noticed now you had problem with it. To hit Shaddar you need to 'collect' one of the things that are flying around in the room first.
Also I have been going over and testing a route using the preset 29 demon and I think I got a working route, will need some fine tuneing but it is should be possible to get a really fast and cool route working for it soon.
To hit Shaddar you need to 'collect' one of the things that are flying around in the room first I knew I was missing something) Never finished the game in legit way, so kinda had no idea there.
...testing a route using the preset 29 demon and I think I got a working route... Nice! Unfortunately I'm kinda busy atm, so you might as well submit a run with that route. Gotta make a category for that.
Ok got a decent run with this new route tho did a silly routing mistake where i forgot to add the new fly clip for opening the water gate door, old route had a different wrong warp there. But I will do a video where I go over and explain this route and what I do, hopefully I have the time to record it tomorrow. But this route can surly go down to about 28 min if not lower.
That's a really good run! Sure, send the video in guides section, I'll watch it to see how all the warps and OID manipulation in your run work and then approve the run.
Thanks!
Also looks like they updated src so you can only add guides if you have a run on the board or are a moderator, I think. Can add guides now. Will add with some more info that could be helpful
WQ glitch allows to tp/trigger debug quest progress update, etc as long as the characters used are different.
