hey guys, Remy and I have been talking and we want to add a few Verifier moderators. Because activity is still reasonable for us to handle, but a tournament is coming soon. Verifier moderators essentially verify runs and don't generally have any more abilities. So just read the rules and watch runs.

Would any of you be interested? Of course, the longer we have known you the better, because we would have more confidence. But I don't know if it's an appealing role.

The tournament is organized on Discord. It comprises several M&S games. Since Remy never posted anything around here:

1. Welcome to the M&S World Championship 2024!
2. This is a tournament happening in the last quarter of this year. Exact dates will be revealed soon, follow this channel to keep yourself up to date.
3. Players can submit scores/times in the given period to compete on the Main Leaderboard or on the Game Leaderboard of a single game. At the end of the period the 2 best players on the Main Leaderboard will advance to the knockout-phase. And the numbers 3 - 6 on the Main Leaderboard + the winners of the Game Leaderboards will advance to the playoffs. Via the playoffs 2 players can still participate in the final knockout-phase.
5. Everything you need to know about the tournament can be found here. Be sure to read it carefully, especially if you decide to participate!
6. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AAjZ9O9YWvAij4oAZ-Mhut-8vMMs20js
8. The winner of the tournament will receive the World Champion 2024 discord role + Custom Champion Banner.
9. 2nd place will get: Custom 2nd Place Banner.
10. 3rd place will get: Custom 3rd Place Banner.
12. If you're interested to participate please sign up here:
13. https://surveyheart.com/form/66e9ea30d51d21485e5c9f40
14. (You don't NEED to sign up here to be able to participate, but it's HIGHLY apreciated)
16. When you signed up, check if you have the <PARTICIPANT> role and check in the offcial sheet of this tournament, at the page 'Players List, if your name shows up there. This can take 1 or 2 days.
18. If you want to follow this tournament but you're not participating you can react with <:Vector:Emoji> and I'll give you the <SPECTATOR> role.

Recently JenteJ suggested that we add Category Extensions.

He suggested that we move Score Events and most Misc categories there.

But I wanted to know the opinion of the community.

The change won't be performed too soon. I'll probably let the poll open for a month or so.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfL-cyTiEYRr5dcNPCqeoHyaruru8mzOsmkq1u6esmEbGIofw/viewform?usp=sharing

1. Emulator for Adventure Tours

Remy agrees and you can submit an emulator run for Adventure Tours. I will split the category soon.

If you make a run for Adventure Tours on emulator before I add the category split, feel free to tell me and I'll be quicker about it.

2. All Minigames

I have realized that the "Play Minigames -> All Minigames" rules were changed. It might have been me who changed the rules a long time ago, but I have forgotten.

Essentially, the old rules stated that the minigames had to be played in order, but now they can be played without order. I felt the need to notify it.

I think it's okay since there have only been 3 runs submitted there, 2 were made 5 years ago by player who don't play anymore, and 1 run was cheated. So no player should feel bad about this change.

The change is beneficial because there is a brutal RNG that comes with the Vector minigame (at the end of the run). The category might become funnier to run like this.

There's also RNG manipulation now, but I forbid it. If you want to submit a run with RNG manipulation, say it outloud, and I will split "All minigames" in 2. RNG manip is against the rules for "All minigames".

If you play "All minigames" on emulator, I will make these a requirement: 1. stream your session of attempts, 2. Use Bizhawk emulator, and 3. Display your inputs on the screen. As I have said, somebody had already cheated the record before, with emulator. So that's why I wanted to make the rules a bit more strict for this category in particular.

0. Stuff I've done

I shared my issues with having several categories on the front page with few runs (All Events, Win All Events, All Olympic Events and All Dream Events) and some regrets about the video quality of my runs.

I have united them inside 1 single category with a dropdown to make it look cleaner. I considered that was a more elegant solution than just moving all of them inside Misc. It really doesn't change much, it just looks better.

I have also replaced my "All Olympic Events" record with a run that's almost equally as fast, but has been recorded with propper quality. I think that should solve most of the issue, but my "All Events" world record is still poorly recorded (I'm afraid it's hard to beat and I'm not up for the task lately).

I moved "Golden Tours" outside of Misc for no particular reason, I just felt it was better that way. I added a "All Skiing Events" inside Misc. I added a 'Downhill' category on Misc.

I don't feel it's inadequate to add categories if I add them on Misc (since Misc is hidden), but I'm not sure if I'm doing it in such a way that it looks like an overkill. I might be bloating Misc unnecessarily. If I think of something that looks fun to run or that does not feel repetitive, I just add it without much thought.

1. Emulator for Adventure Tours

I've been adding rules for "Full Game" categories, rules that enable emulator.

For "Full Game" categories I have simply allowed Emulator (except for "Aventure Tours"). Emulator was not allowed before me and Remy became mods, but before we became mods there were no other "Full Game" categories anyways. I realized there are few runners interested in Full Game, so I should not encourage them to "not run the game" by forbidding emulator. It's not like people will be bothered to cheat such long runs right now, the danger seems low.

For ILs I added some requirements months ago, because the events are short enough I am afraid they are too easy to cheat on. Emulator was already allowed before Kieron was a mod. Remy and I talked about emulator in ILs long ago, and since it was already allowed it was left as it was. Emulator rules were only changed for Speed Skating.

For "Play minigame" I just require proof of the resets, if the minigame has a lot of RNG. To make sure nobody is resetting to a savestate. Emulator was allowed before Kieron was a mod.

[[[for context, a runner who confessed cheating several minigames on Discord was the trigger for a more strict regulation on emulator. That's why the emulator rules for Speed Skating and for the minigames were changed. ]]]

I'm unsure what to do about Score events. There are 0 emulator runners for Score events, when they exist I'll think about it all. I feel Score events have been a decent success and I am wary about touching anything and ruining the fun.

Well, I have been considering enabling emulator for "Adventure Tours". I feel that it would be better if I enabled emulator in a separate category or in a category split.

I'm not sure if I should just "split it" in 2 (like Speed Skating), or whether I should add the category inside "Misc" and wait for it to have a few runs (if it has a few runs, I'd move it outside of Misc and fuse it with the current "Adevnture Tours". So that it looks like Speed Skating).

I don't think it's super necessary, but I fear somebody might want to run "Adventure Tours" on emulator, which is currently not allowed. It has never been allowed.

If I simply allow emulator, I might leave all of the current "console runners" at a disadvantage due to slower loading times. If I split "Adventure Tours" like Speed Skating, there will be an empty category that will not see many runs for a while (which looks bad). If I hide it inside "Misc" nobody might realize that it exists, or the runners might lose interest in running the category because it would not be a main category. BUT if I don't do anything, the only category which does not allow emulator on "Full Game" will be "Adventure Tours", which is the most popular category in the first place (if any person wants to run this game on emulator, they would most likely run Adventure Tours, because it's the most popular speedrun).

This feels like it'd be a big change. So I will not just do it overnight, I'll ask around discord and Remy. Feel free to give a piece of your mind.

2. I probably will attempt to find a seed for Ski Cross Racing.

If I find a seed for Ski Cross Racing that prevents me from dying to blue shells, emeralds or otherwise, I will split the category ASSAP and make the seed public. Otherwise I just feel it'd be too unfair. I'm thinking about doing the same with Figure Skating anyways, since my WR openly uses Pauses. It's just that these 2 events don't see many runners, so I'm not sure many people care beyond me.

It was suggested that moderators should make more use of the News Forum when we change stuff around the community. In the event that it was needed, I want to list the changes that were carried on in the last 7 months. Mainly by me, Remy was consulted for major stuff

I made this announcement without Remy because I didn't think it was anything worth asking about

1. New categories added

2. Category Split on Speed Skating. Emulator Rules added.

• Split

The main goal of the split is to make sure that players play at the same level. "Fast tapping" is way easier on Emulator than Console. It made a major difference in Speed Skating, so Console players were left at a disadvantage.

No other IL has so many submitted emulator runs. But so long there is not an unfair disadvantage, then there won't be a split in other ILs.

For future Splits in category, I want to say. We won't split a category, unless: A. There are enough Emu runs to justify the Split. B. There is a clear and unfair advantage in Emulator.

• Rules

I asked the Emulator players for feedback, because I had to make sure I could tell the difference between gameplay and TAS. But I couldn't force harsh enough rules that players would feel that submitting runs is not worth the effort.

3. Obsoleted runs wouldn't show up, so I re-verified them.

Almost every Obsoleted run was 'Orphan'. I don't really understand what happened, but I reversed things back to normal.

Kieron also rejected runs that were verified before. The users deleted their Youtube channel after a few years, so the video couldn't be viewed, and so Kieron thought it looked bad (I guess). I undid that, because even Spielpro (one of the old moderators) had his videos unavailable. The videos were reviewed by a moderator and met the rules back then.

4. Change in regards to Emulator Rules in some Full-Game categories.

5. Change about Emulator Rules on Speed Skating

I made a mistake about the preferred emulator. MelonDS does not have a tool which displays inputs. Only Bizhawk does.

6. Rules about verifying runs without video (it's allowed, but with limits), on the Forum.

7. Rules about Emulator on minigame categories (a cheater confessed, so we had to update the rules)

8. I made the url shorter, for easy access.

I guess 'Van10DS' would make more sense, but the Wii version wasn't using the current url. So I made it mine.

Speedrun.com/van10

9. Change to the Background Image and Game Thumbnail.

1. New changes incoming:

A. I'm probably going to defeat my poorly recorded records (All Olympic Events, All Events). The community should have a video quality standard. If I wasn't the moderator myself, nobody would have verified my runs. I regret not using a better camera, and editing the video.

Once I defeat myself, I will update the rules so that there cannot be any cuts to the gameplay (my camera is really bad, I did not cut the footage willingly), or edits like the ones I used. I understand recording Nintendo DS is hard, but my videos are too bad. I regret not having had better foresight about this topic.

If anybody feels interested, go ahead. But the speedrun is still very optimized despite the fact that there's no competition.

B. Barely anybody has played the "All Olympic Events", "Win All Events", "All Dream Events", "All Events" categories anyways, so I might just hide them on "Misc" or "Other". Until more players submit runs.

It's visually ugly that there are 3 categories with only 1 or 2 runs on the "main Full Game categories", and on top of that, the video quality (of my videos) is just hard to watch.

I feel that would not be a "major" change, but I will ask Remy about it. Acting unilaterally is not my thing.

But anyways, I have found that the categories are too long to be popular, the players seem to care more about ILs. ¡Understandably so! But I intended to add more color to the available categories

I asked the players on Discord before adding them, so that's why I feel this was not poorly intended. JenteJ has pointed out that most players are not on Discord, so I will be asking about this stuff in here (Forums) next time. I feel that's where the disconnection might have come from.

Maybe I will try, and ask you guys about adding other categories, around 3-8 minutes long. The jump would be smaller than going from categories of barely 1 minute, to categories of 20 minutes.

C. Rules about RNG manipulation (long text, go to D. if bored)

This change is a fan favourite. I (Chall99) discovered RNG manipulation. Some players have felt frustrated about it and have suggested a Category Split. But there is still a big issue. Well, actually there are 2.

First, unless the player admits to RNG manipulation, the moderator and viewer will never know if the run is using RNG manipulation.

Second, there are not enough runs that use RNG manipulation. But even if there were enough runs to justify splitting a category, RNG manipulation does not necessarily leave the player at a disadvantage in every category.

For example, RNG manipulation in Ski Jumping is so hard it barely offers an advantage. It's faster to just reset the event. So if somebody chose to use RNG manipulation, it could be fair.

Minigames are another story. It is a VERY clear disadvantage. It's so easy to find a seed and ruin the speedrun. But as I have said, there are barely any submitted runs (beyond mine). So I can't just split every minigame into 2 categories, only for the other category to have 1 single run of myself. That would look very narcissistic haha.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SKIP if you bored

I guess I could ban RNG manipulation in minigames and delete my runs. But I'm not sure that would be fair either. It feels wrong that there are runs with RNG manipulation, because lots of players had already performed runs without RNG manips. But if the categories had been created with the knowledge that this technique existed (and there was not a category split), I feel it wouldn't have been an issue, because no vanilla runs would have been underminded.

In a way, I feel like I have killed minigames accidentally. (((deleted bc too long)))

So I'm afraid the minigame categories will be left on this awkward spot for some time. It is even more awkward because Big_Brain admitted to cheating, so now some minigame World Records are on a weird spot, seconds behind what the record was claimed to be.

Anyways, TLDR

As of now, RNG manipulation is in diapers. Until it becomes relevant on ILs or Full Game runs, or until more runs are submitted, I just can't split categories.

I can't split every minigame into 2 categories, only for the other category to have 1 single run of myself. That's odd.

Even if I deleted my runs of the minigame categories, and forbid RNG manipulation, anybody could do it and the moderators would never know. There is no way to know... Most runs would be left in an awkward spot anyways, seconds behind their current World Record.

I dislike saying that "the best thing to do is to not develop the technique further", which we can't do without lua scripting anyways. But that seems to be it...

Even so, RNG manipulation would be relevant for: Short Track, Biathlon, Cross Country, Ski Cross Racing, Snowboarding and Extreme Snowboarding. To avoid blue shells and achieve great CPU boosts.

If the seed is freeuse for everybody, then the RNG pattern would be very easy to identify for the moderators: there could be a category split, unlike with minigames. Another question is whether there should be a category split, which would be asked to the community. But it's too hard to find the GodSeeds without lua scripting capacity, so that won't happen any time soon.

D. Rules about Pauses.

It's fairly common on the Mario & Sonic Games to Pause to achieve a record. I don't recall if Cyberscore or VGR had categories that explicitely used Pauses.

Vancouver DS does not generally have events where pausing offers an advantage. In fact, I have tried this several times on some events, but I only had fun in Figure Skating.

It's rough on your fingers and drains both the soul and the fun. But pause strats are very common in speedruning.

As of now, nobody uses them enough to justify creating rules about them. So I hope this texts helps the player understand that it's not seen as cheating, but it could be interpreted as a way to leave pauseless players at a disadvantage. So consider the idea:

"For future Splits in category, I want to say. We won't split a category, unless: A. There are enough runs that Pause to justify the Split. B. There is a clear and unfair advantage in Pausing."

If the category is no fun, then nobody will play with pauses.

But sometimes, Pauses are not enough to justify splitting a category anyways, because they do not create a big disadvantage to pauseless players.

For example:

I have used pauses in Ski Jumping. I tried to defeat the "Balance" section by pausing in every possible frame. After doing that, I concluded that it was harder and slower than just playing normal, it was no fun, and it should be banned.

But then I decided to use Pauses in Ski Jumping, only to see in which direction was the wind blowing. That didn't offer me a huge or unfair advantage, it just improved my consistency slightly.

Still. The speedruns work with an "in-game" timer, so pausing every frame or lots of times would defeat the goal of "speedruning". You can't go minutes slower in Real Time, just to be 1 or 2 seconds faster according to the in-game Time. Pauses should be proportionate with the goal of "speedruning".

Score Events are different, but I hope the overall logic of what the moderators might think has been made clear.

I hope that, despite the fact that no rules have been made officially, everybody has an insight of the way Pauses are viewed.

The Misc categories won't exit "Misc" until 3 runs have been submitted. This is to prevent the frontpage of the Game from flooding with several Empty categories. It'd look bad.

Dear Vancouver DS players, they are finally here. You can now submit runs of the score events and Nordic Combined. Look at the rules for each event how to submit the score. Good luck on the grind everyone!!!