I have done a bit of research and testing and have come to the conclusion that allowing Better Sadx to be on the leaderboards is an outstanding decision. I have looked through guides, resources, and rules. Better Sadx DOES in fact work with IGT because Bsadx changes the Steams game files into the PC versions game files. Essentially there should be no time difference between them. This requires some more testing of course, maybe by people with more time in this game than me but I want a change here. Most people own and or bought the steam release first, not knowing they wanted to speedrun the game later. It is really unlikely someone will buy the exact same game twice. What i'm getting at here is that if we can allow Bsadx then more people will most likely be able to actively run this game. Meaning more players and a larger community. If I have some information wrong or you disagree with what i'm saying then lets talk about it. I want change and that change cant happen if I am incorrect or don't have evidence. The evidence part is evident. If you have bsadx run the IGT that comes within livesplit and watch as it works with the auto splitter as well. Lets talk about this, the last time I saw something like this talked about was 10 months ago. And there have been updates since then so I hope we can all come together for a moment to try to change something

PS. I have also heard people say that people want the game to be as original as possible. I completely and utterly respect that but my gripe with this come from the fact that bsadx IS essentially the PC version of the game. Maybe i'm not getting something, but from my understanding Bsadx is PC version AFTER the changes to the files have been made. So maybe instead of saying steam/pc/bsadx we could just qualify bsadx (without all the non legal mods) as just pc version (or its own category). I feel like that would be the best fix for this situation. Of course testing is needed to see if there are time differences. But there are time differences between pc and steam but they are the same category so idk.

I found another forum thread talking about bsadx from 3 years ago. https://www.speedrun.com/sadx/thread/3rxfo

Seems like people are on board with bsadx being allowed as long as it doesnt change the game hiddenly. Ill have to research this minimal mode soon. I will tell you guys if it even exists as at the moment I dont even know. Not to mention Shanekillz (A mod) said that bsadx is allowed in that forum thread. Seems things have changed since then but as to why Im not sure either. Time to research more.

I have found another alternative of sorts to bsadx which is sadx mod installer. Seems like it works with the base steam release. If it alters files I cannot say yet but this is where the testing comes into play.

if you are interested in seeing or testing what I am talking about look here https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1788203025

It seems I have found something https://sadxmodinstaller.unreliable.network/ that is the homepage for said installer. On that page it states "It can also convert the Steam version of SADX into a fully functional 2004 port with mod support." Seems like Bsadx might not be allowed but that this here mod installer should be. Yet maybe it is already allowed just not clear enough in the rules. Yet the chance people don't even KNOW about this is also a big probability.

I FOUND IT. I have found the said minimal mode. While it is not part of bsadx unfortunately, it is part of the mod installer. https://imgur.com/a/hZifMu2 THIS here changes everything. Bsadx might not be legal but THIS definitely should but before I get over my head we need to test things of course.

Boys I have something HUGE https://streamable.com/ee6vpr In that video right there you can see me going through alt he settings of said mod installer. You can see the mods and the settings that came with the mod installer. Xinput fix was not a part of them so you see me tinkering with settings and relaunching the game ON STEAM trying to figure out why my controller wasnt working. AND you can see IGT working perfectly you cant see the autosplitter well because I exited the game early before the split was to happen to show the IGT stops with the game but this here is very very big

You know that nobody is actually buying the PC Disc version, right?

Yes I know this and that is actually something Im trying to fix as not actually buying it would be piracy and I dont think its right to actively promote that when we can take a legal copy and turn it into/downgrade it to the copy we need

Its just easier and more legal

Alright that's enough internet for me for one day.

is there something i'm missing? do you disagree?

Well I've looked through the things i have said and it doesn't seem like I clearly state what my goal is. Simply I want, Not bsadx as it does edit game files BUT mod installer for steam to be legalized and to be stated as in the rules and maybe for a link to the website of mod installer along with notes to choose the minimal version or for what mods are allowed and if there are any exceptions. Basically I just want things to be more clear and for info regarding mod installer and bsadx to be better seen so people don't end up having to pirate sadx and instead can easily buy the steam release and install mod installer which does everything for them. I mean mod installer even says int their installer that minimal mode is the speedrun version of mod installer. And if it actually IS legal. Please make that much more clear in the rules so people don't end up risking getting a virus on their pc so they can pirate a Dreamcast game.

It can also convert the Steam version of SADX into a fully functional 2004 port with mod support.

Just to sorta explain what a lot of these modloaders do to steam. They nix the steam EXE and many times replace it with the Disc version and alter how files are loaded which introduce some odd changes to the game. One of the key ones is rocket killing you but not the canon in Sky Deck. It does this (i believe) because how the .adx files are handled in the game.

We've known about much of what you're suggesting and decided against doing that after much trial and tribulation.

Yeah I explored having the mod creator helping us make a speedrun friendly BSADX. But we revisited that and decided it wasn't close enough to the original releases of the game. We can always revisit this again but honestly, using mod loader conversion and BSADX BOTH do the exact same thing downloading disc does. It does not FIX anything.

I always say buy steam version as steam version will benefit SEGA directly. If you can get your hands on the disc version through a friend, by all means use that as it (with input mod) is better and feels a lot nicer to run.

Thank you for replying I see what your saying here and I definitely agree, and its good to hear that you guys were aware of this. I cant say I fully support having to "get the download" for the disc version though buying the steam release and then having mod installer install the disc version for you is essentially the same as downloading the actual version for yourself. Its just that mod installer requires you to buy the game while finding the install for the game somewhere of course requires no pay for a paid game. Of course sometimes there is no other option but I would like to see something done about this.

Thank you again for informing me

Also one question. You say by all means use it. Are you saying that you can use mod installer?

How is modifying an exe of a game to be something else basically the same as the original game? Like, here's the thing: the changes COULD look like vanilla, but research would mean you'd need to check the actual code, compare it to the original, give us proof instead of saying you've done research, which, no offense, but how are we supposed to know you didn't try something like homing attack an enemy as proof? We need full evidence, and then we'd need to just take into account that the exe itself was modified to seem like the original, and it even had a bug not present in the original game (the Sky Deck Act I cannon). I'm sorry, but we'll need a lot of evidence to support the argument. Please don't take this as being mean. That is not my intention. It's just that basic observations can't really cut it here. Really, unless we knew 100% exactly how it functioned, had access to all the code, and analyzed it, we can't really even consider it imo

You can also still get pc disc for like 10 pounds/13 dollars at most.

Gpro you are completely correct I said in one of the posts that I might be way over my head and yes I truly was you are right that this isn't exactly enough evidence or research to do anything with and I accept that. Maybe one day someone with the skills to look into the code and such will come along. I just took what the launchers and such were saying at face value.

And lilfatkid yes that's another option but most people will just pirate the game which imo is sorta ok if you bought the steam release and can find a link that wont give you a virus.

Also one question. You say by all means use it. Are you saying that you can use mod installer?

No I'm not. I was suggesting by all means use it in regards to getting the disc version. We also allow using a modloader with the disc to enable users to correct and make controllers usable as well as some other mods as listed in the rules explicitly.

I see thank you

wow, i always think that BSADX is Just The pc steam version but with pc 2004 mod support ported over to it for mods. is it bad that i even think that?