Pinging again about adding Eureka Orthos to the deep dungeon full game categories. We've got a reasonably good run for 1-100 Coop () as well as some good times for 1-10 and 1-50. I know Finh and AngelusDemonus also have some nifty solo 1-100 runs.

(If it's IGT, we'd also have to recalculate most of our runs so far by summing up the time for each floorset)

I'd like to second Finh's requests. Our group is putting together some competitive times for 1-10 / 1-50 / 1-100 Coop for Eureka Orthos, and we're ready to upload in at least a couple of those categories (we'd like to work our 1-100 time down a little more first)

We'd also like clarification about RTA vs IGT. We've assumed RTA the whole time (and I think Finh has too?) but I think some runs have had breaks which were not counted against them. We'd like clarification here because it has strategy implications (as a minor example, with pre-sprinting, if it's IGT we might wait for sprints to come back up between floor sets)

The edit was just changing the name ;_;

With regard to Palace of the Dead 1-200, we did a couple of trial coop runs of it.

There's still time to be gained, but it's short enough to be runnable. We did it in 3:37:xx.

Thoughts?

I think probably the best way to do it is to make a new category for using any character on any level, similar to how on the Peggle Deluxe leaderboard they have Adventure Mode (which is what any% would become) and a NG+ Adventure Mode (where you can use any master for any level)

At least the rules should be clarified, as everyone seems to be going by the assumption you can only use the master you could originally.

Would it be possible to add a Palace of the Dead 1-200 category? (Both solo and coop)

1-100 Heaven on High covers the whole thing, but 1-100 palace only covers the story portion, and it would be really interesting to see some 1-200 speedruns.

TL;DR: I think we should probably not allow it to maintain parity with running through Adventure mode normally, as seems to be what everyone has been doing. But I don't feel strongly, except to say we should clarify some rules.

To start with, I ran some tests from a new game. In a new game adventure mode, the next stage is not unlocked until you reach the stage victory screen (I tried quitting out right after the ball went in the bucket, and when the score started counting, and the next stage was not unlocked. There's a visual cue that happens to unlock the next stage that only happens on the victory screen). Because of this, I would say that to simulate unlocking the next stage in adventure mode, you should have to reach the victory screen.

However, the rules don't say explicitly that we're simulating adventure mode, that's just what everyone seems to be doing by agreement.

Right now, there are two kinds of runs. My run, where I started a new game and ran through adventure mode, and the other three runs I can see (the 5th place run is in flash which I can't watch) where people with completed saves run through all the levels.

The way I did it (with the new game) shaves some time off beating each level individually. The transitions are shorter between levels than coming back out to the menu and watching the character introduction animation for each level. My estimate was gaining about 4-5 minutes starting from a new save.

At a rough guess, quitting out to avoid the score counting saves about 8-10 seconds per level, including Celestial, so it's ~8-10 minutes faster than non-new game runs, and about 4-5 minutes faster than a new save run, if it's allowed.

There's a good argument to say that it's ok in the rules, but I think there are also some things people have been assuming are in the rules that aren't. The rules say "Complete all Levels. (No DLC). No Trials Required. Timing Starts when the first level is started (or start game) and the timer ends when the ball goes in the last bucket."

For example, everyone plays with the "correct" master for each level, but it's not stated in the rules you have to do this. If all we have to do is complete all levels, then a more optimal any% run is to (probably) pick Gnorman for every level (I'd say Jimmy but no DLC ;-) )

So all of this said, I think it's probably best to clarify whether we're simulating adventure mode (or even just say you have to start with a new profile) or not, with regards to which masters we're allowed to use, and whether or not you need to see the victory screen. My preference would be new profile or see victory screen for each level (except the last), and only use the "Correct" master for each level (and any for celestial). But again, I don't feel strongly, except that a decision should be made.

Sorry for being so long winded. It's exciting to see someone else running this category. ^_^;