No, just as fast as possible like it stated in the Rules. Don't really see the point in making such stuff count as well, since when you want a good run you beat these goals anyways so quite useless imo.

Not forcing you to beat the Developer Times makes it easier to pick up for a new runner. If you really want to beat it, you HAVE to do it in 300%, so its covered there.

Since the Patch hasn't come yet (I know there should be one in January, but we'll see it), but I think Glitch-Sub-Categories are kinda needed because the RLG (Reverse-Lap-Glitch) is getting out of control xD

My Idea is that we have another 3 Sub-Categories, to define which Glitches/Skips etc are allowed. The Concept would be:

• Glitchless / Vanilla: No Skips and no Glitches are allowed. Complete the Goal like the devs intended it.
• Skips: Skips like the Chouko City Shortcut/Skip or the Sunahara Desert Respawn-Teleport Shortcut/Skip are allowed. Glitches like the RLG are banned tho.
• Glitched: Skips and Glitches of any art are allowed.

Another thing would be a Version-Variable, to define the Game-Version for future Updates. With that, we can define Runs which have the original/old Version as outdated but still verified.

What do you guys think about it?

I like the 3 Sub categories, but we need to define which Skips fall into the "Skips" category and simply add it to the rules so its easy to see. Same for the other categories.

I think "Anything goes" and "Glitchless" should be enough for our concerns. Here's my reasoning :

• Those two categories would be easy to understand for newcomers, anything another ambiguous one could be a bit confusing, and bring debates about what should be eligible.
• There's an overlap between the glitchless and skips only, since for a majority of the tracks, the reverse-lap glitch is the only one that saves time (at least so far). A skips only category is only relevant for a bunch of track like Sunahara Desert or arguably Chuoko City.
• We already have sub-categories for the different speed classes, as well as Hero mode. It would be preferable to not add too many of them as to not fragment the playerbase too much. We could eventually remove sub-categories that prove to be unpopular, but some people wouldn't like that I'm sure.

It is wiser to wait until the patch to see what happens, regardless. If the glitches and skips are fixed, we may not even need to add extra categories in the end. Until then, I'm going to keep playing mainly without the shortcuts, to improve my driving, and so that my times should still be worth something in the near future (also because it's more fun :P)

I was thinking of only 2 Sub Categories as well, it is easier to understand. But some of the cool skips will get lost, since Reverse Lap Glitch is faster, I personally like using the cuts but not the reverse Lap Glitch. But most of all we should wait for the patch ;)

Heya. wamted to start the question again and make it work out this time. I know we had this in discord as well, but here, I think we can achive finally something.

Question is since January: Glitch-Categories. Which one and with what kind of rules? 3 Categories: Banning everything, Allowing Skips, Allowing everything 2 Categories: Banning RLG, Allowing everything. Or some kind of other variation.

Another thing to take a look at is the Speed/"Difficulty" Settings. Do we really need it? I think we can get rid of Sub- and Super-Sonic since Hypersonic is the once that everyone is using and makes sence so ... what do you guys think about it?

The thing we can already do is deleting the Hero Mode ILs, the game doesn't even display the final time on screen and nobody has submitted any run on it.

I still think we should wait for a No-Glitch at all category, the hypothetical patch will provide some minor adjustements like the timer accuracy improvement and it will therefore be problematic for very close times; and seperating the glitchless categories because of the versions sounds kinda silly.

A No RLG category could be interesting even if the concept is somewhat weird. It would allow every shortcuts besides RLG related ones, perhaps banning the lap skips or at least the multiple crashes in a row to skip more than one lap could be done as well since it's clearly a checkpoint abuse, even if it's probably not related to RLG. The ruleset will be something like : -No driving backward or toward a preceding portion of the track ( exception made/or not for the finish line), in order to trigger the lap counter is allowed - Sunahara Desert ending cut is prohibited, and maybe -Crashing mulitple times so as to skip multiple laps in a row is also forbidden.

I don't really play sub and supersonic category so it won't bother me if we get rid of them, most of the people playing it are submitting their times on Cyberscore and not here anyway.

Well the discussion about the patch has been there since over 3 months already. All we hear is that they are working on it. Even if they are working on it - even if it gets released tomorrow - we should finally make something about it since mixing all of these is not good at all and we can't wait forever. When the Patch does finally come, we surely have to rethink it again anyways since it'll prob. feature other bugs and glitches.

I actually don't think we should remove Hero Mode IL's. They are a very special and unique part of the Game. I think we should at least leave it in there till the Patch, since the Patch may fix the current issues with the timing.

A thing that I didn't think about yet are the CUP IL's. I think these can actually be removed since there isn't much of sense in them anyways. Either IL grinding or Full-Runs. These Cups don't really make sense when you think about it :/

The Rules and Definitions for the own Categories have been discussed multiple times already, and so far they nearly always end up to something like this:

• Clean / Glitchless: Everything is banned. Side-Dashing/-Tech is the once allowed Glitch/Bug/Technique.
• Skips: (Reverse) Lap-Glitches are banned. Every kind of manipulating the Lap-Count in any way is forbidden. Every Goal has to be made by actually driving through / near them (Near Example: Hibarisha Speedway).
• Glitched: All kinds of Glitches, Bugs and Techniques are allowed. No restrictions.

I also think we should wait for the patch, but it shouldn't take much longer. Here's my thoughts on the subject for now.

I definetly agree with the idea of removing "50cc" and "100cc", they're not real speedruns in my eyes.

Hero mode IL's are in my opinion useless, since there's actually no way in checking what exact time you got in-game.

For me the most important categories would be:

• Any%(?) - Anything goes, fastest time counts

• No Skips - Just clean driving, no skips should be used. This also brings up what to do with Chuoku and Sendai corner cutters. In my opinion they can stay because the game almost begs those parts to be skipped, but I'd like to hear other opinions too.

I'm open-minded in accepting other categories as long as they have a solid ruleset.

For Cup IL's, in my mind they DO make sense since the game saves your fastest time on it

Nope still no patch in sight, I made a poll this time maybe it'll help ¯_(ツ)_/¯.

1 vote/person please : http://www.strawpoll.me/10088492

There are now 7 voters, that’s not a lot but we’re a small community and at least the results are pretty clear.

Concerning the ruleset as said earlier: - Obviously no driving backward or toward a previous checkpoint to trigger a lap –No clipping through walls/barriers –No respawn/crash to be teleported further –Perhaps, every lap has to be triggered by driving under the finish arch Didn’t find a proper way to explain that only corner-cutter shortcuts are allowed though.

If someone's inspired enough to come up with a more elaborated ruleset, feel free to talk :D

I voted to keep the empty hero mode ILs, but when I think about it, it's either or for me.

Since the patch should come out on the 18th of May (See: https://twitter.com/ShinenGames/status/730770969275564032), what should we do with the Categories?

My idea would be, to update the Version-Variable and misc all v1.0. In addition to that, we should split all runs into the sub-categories for v1.0 before (Glitchless, Glitched ...?) and "finish" these leaderboards to make it update-able.

Bumping this thread with the DLC coming out this week.

Right now we have 3 main categories (Championship/TA/Hero Mode, excluding 300% for the sake of discussion) with 4 sub-categories each, for a total of 12 charts, which is already plenty for this game considering the activity of this game, but still fine and acceptable. But the addition of v1.2 with the 8 new tracks could effectively double the number of speedrun charts, with the runs going through the standard 16 tracks AND the runs including ALL the 24 tracks! To me this seems overkill, moreso when several sub-categories have, and will have redundancies :

• Glitchless 1.0 and Glitchless 1.1 are very similar, the only significant difference being in the loading times. And Glitchless 1.2 is expected to be the same
• Glitched 1.1 is identical to Glitchless 1.1, save for Sendai Outpost is the only track that differs going by the rules we have already established. It is also unplayed and at this point will never get any runs for either of the 3 main categories
• Pending any discoveries on the DLC tracks, Glitched 1.2 could very well have the same fate as Glitched 1.1, the checkpoint system making it very difficult to stray far from the tracks.

And I did not even bring up the ILs charts... for the original 16 tracks we would end up with up to 6 different charts for a SINGLE cup/track, possibly more in another patch arises in the future.

In order to streamline the charts, I have 3 options in mind :

1. Establish definitive rules regarding what qualifies as glitchless, and put the version used as a variable instead of a sub-category for each;
2. Have the different versions as their own sub-categories, put all the fastest times from a category in a single chart (eventually add glitched and glitchless as variables;
3. Move all glitched times into Miscellaneous categories. As almost everybody from the community as moved on from v1.0, the glitched charts have effectively become legacy and set in stone (unless future hacks allow the game to be set back to older version).

My preference goes to the 1st option since we would then have a fixed number of categories regardless of any future patch, and categories that are a bit easier to understand for newcomers, however I understand than some runs will appear worse than they actually are depending on the version used, problem which we don't see for option 2/3.

What do you think is the more suitable choice, if we make any changes?

My Solution would be:

• Move all Glitched v1.0 runs into an own Misc Category.
• Remove the Glitched/Glitchless Categories then since it's useless to have them then

Since I don't know if v1.2 is DLC only, we gotta leave that for now with the versions.

I'd say option 1 and 3 would be best. I don't know alot about glitched speedruns and how much V1.1 saves over V1.0 so I leave that up to people with more knowledge about this. Glitched V1.0 as misc seems like a good idea to me!

"Changelog":

• All Variables are now for Full and IL runs (IL's had own system to make it more appealing)
• Version 1.2 is now default
• Version 1.0 and 1.1 are marked as misc
• Added a DLC Variable. I think we should make it a sub-category as well since it's a major difference or make new Categories for DLC
• Tried to make Version a simple Variable, but caused problems with literally everything. Will look into it later.

Edit: Changelog v2 ;)

• All glitched v1.0 runs got moved into a legacy category respectively
• Versions are only Variables now and may only be as extra data
• DLC Sub-Categories!
• Glitched/Glitchless sub-categories got removed completely since there's no use for it anymore (Hence glitched v1.0 is legacy and nobody does it anymore)