Hi all! I am interested in doing a glitchless run (No skips at all, actually fighting Malkil)

Would it be possible to add a category for that?

My ideas for rules would be like this:

• Player must find all 9 guild statues
• Player must complete all 9 guilds
• Player must find all 4 gems
• Player must defeat Malkil
• No skips of any kind allowed (Beehives, guardian etc must be bypassed using the intended tools and not despawning or damage boost etc)
• Malkil must be defeated by dropping his health to zero with attacks. No glitches can be used to skip the fight.
• Timing begins as soon as you can begin moving Kuros; time ends when you can no longer manipulate Kuros' movement after defeating Malkil

If it's not possible or desirable to add a new category I understand and will add my run to the normal all guilds% category

Thanks,

• Marquisdan

I can make this happened, I had also a few years back thought about just making an all collectibles run, which would include everything you mention along with returning all 6 relics to the 3 wise men.

I'll at least make an all guilds glitchless category for now, have fun. :)

Awesome, thanks so much for the quick response xJackieBx! I have a day off work on the 18th and am planning on running this game all day to see if I can get a time in. Hopefully I will have a submission in that day!

Thanks again!

So I just made the category :)

one thing I will point out though is while I am banning glitches like beehive skip and guard skip etc, I'm still allowing the use of the hidden rooms/entrances.

I'm also allowing for jumping over the other flashing guard up in the palace area, as he is never needed to be killed anyways in order to get the palace jewel. I might ban the old window jump we used to do in order to get that jewel around 5 or so years ago, but not sure yet as I'm not sure it's technically a glitch (unless being able to stand on any enemy is unintended).

Oh yeah that's a tough call for sure. Whichever way you go with it is cool, trying to find a recording of the jump but I think I know the guy you're talking about.

Thanks so much for adding the category :)

The enemy spawn for the window jump is based on RNG, so the current route is much more consistent.

By my count, this route requires you to purchase 14 keys:

1. Thief 1 statue
2. Thief 1 guild
3. Passage from City to UnderWorld
4. Wizard 1 statue
5. Wizard 1 guild
6. Thief 2 statue
7. Knight 1 statue
8. Knight 1 guild
9. Knight 2 statue
10. Thief 2 guild
11. Wizard 2 statue
12. Wizard 2 guild
13. Knight 2 guild
14. Thief 3 guild

There are two other doors that can be opened with regular keys, but you will probably have the thief 3 costume for them:

1. Wizard 3 statue
2. Palace jewel

Ah so I am definitely buying too many keys. I usually buy a few extra just in case I mess up later and end up at a door in the wrong costume

Too bad about 14 keys though.. if it was 13 you could skip a whole trip to the shop. Right now I buy 2 before thief 1, then 11 after thief 1. I get the remainder after the Gold Thief statue guardian since I often have to heal anyway

I wonder if it'd be feasible to get enough money before the second shop visit to get 12 keys instead of 11

You should have enough if you get the 50-point coin on top of the shop building and the 10-point money bag on top of the building with the UnderWorld passage. The coin is slightly out of the way, but the time save from skipping the shop will probably make up for it. The money bag is directly on the way from the guild to the shop.

Nice, that totally works!

Another potential route update: It turns out that the grey blocks surrounding the room to the guardian of the gold knight statue are not entirely solid. This is within the Palace, the area that has the rooms with the bronze knight statue and bronze knight guild. You can levitate up through the grey blocks from below with the wizard. Line up Kuros so that he's within one of the tall grey pillars while ascending. He doesn't have to be perfectly in the middle; there's a little leeway on either side.

I haven't tested to determine if this is actually faster than the outside route.

Nice Find! I did a little testing and it looks like levitating up is definitely faster if you're coming up from the secret passage in the double bee house.

I did each way 5 times and my fastest time for outside the palace was 21.62s and the fastest time inside the palace through the blocks was 20.08

I tested by starting in the secret passage room door way (The last part, the blue room with the fireplace) as Thief3, then opening the door, going into the palace and climbing up as fast as I could. Both routes involve the same number of costume changes since they both require levitate and thief3 to open a door. The time difference seems to be coming from having to go through two extra doorways to do the traditional route outside the palace.

The question comes in though, is this method allowed in a glitchless run?

I think it would be ok to be allowed, unlike things like beehive skip and guardian skip where you are doing specific movements to despawn them, this doesn't seem to have to use any sort of maneuvering in order to somehow "trick" the game unlike those other examples.

That being said, you still have to be at the same place progression-wise in order to access it, I would definitely be more hesitant in allowing it if it somehow was able to be gotten much sooner in the game, which at this point anyway, can't.

So I say allow it, because you aren't manipulating game mechanics by doing it.

also I've learned today that it is possible in the gold wizard (and possibly silver) guild if you jump i'm guessing on the frame you appear, you can jump straight up to the top step rather than having to jump on the first step and then up again.

I'm not sure how small the timing is to do it, or if it can be buffered at all, but i'll try and get a clip of it being done in the next day or so.

That's a good question (EDIT: about the method being allowed. xJackieBx posted while I was writing this). The terrain type in those spots allows one-way movement: Kuros can move up through it but not down. You can see this by jumping with the gold wizard. He'll move into that block but not into the block just to the right of it (using the leftmost one for this example). The other costumes likely would do the same if they could jump high enough.

This method obviously was not the intended route to get to the knight statue, but the terrain allows it. I don't know if there's a similar situation in another game that can serve as comparison.

Sounds good, I'm fine either way as long as we're all on the same page. I agree about the progression aspect too

I'll do more testing but this is what i'm talking about in my other post, again i'm not sure how the timing is so I may have gotten lucky idk.

The jumping thing in the wizard guilds is probably dependent on subpixel positioning. There IS one frame during which you can give input before the automatic jumping takes over, but I haven't been able to make the jump consistently if leaving the guild and re-entering it. If I'm right about the subpixels, the problem is that the wizard's maximum horizontal speed is too slow.

Also, there IS some type of input buffering that might be helpful when you go through a door. If you press and hold whatever buttons after the screen turns black, that input will be done when the next screen loads. This only applies if that input would be legal in the next screen. For example, you can't use it to switch costumes inside rooms that don't usually allow you to switch costumes. One use I've found is to call up the costume select window quickly after Kuros gets kicked out of a guild for wearing the wrong costume. This also gives you the chance to switch costumes right after entering the king's room and Malkil's room at the end of the game.

So I've done some more testing and there is a consistent way to cause the wizard to jump to the top step.

apparently the slope next to the door puts kuros in the correct position to make the jump as long as you also press jump. it is really quick to do as well since you can just walk into the slope to force the slide animation. I'll post a video in a bit doing it consecutively a few times, along with the controller input.

EDIT* you don't actually need the slope you can just move a bit to the right as you enter the door as the wizard and it can work

Ok so here it is, I do 5 attempts at the jumps, but the first 2 are attempts that are designed to fail,

FIrst- just a standard get kicked out switch to wizard and reenter Second- get kicked out switch to wizard move right and reenter with no buffer jump

3rd-5th - get kicked out switch to wizard move to the right reenter along with holding the jump button.

I also jump and move around in between attempts to try to see if that causes it to stop working, but didn't seem to have any effect.