United StatesAlright, this thread is turning into the same old argument again, so I'm going to disable the comments. Fighting each other isn't going to help any of us. The only reason why I responded in the first place was to try to clarify some things and ask people to be more respectful. Many of you have already shared your feedback in the Discord, and this doesn't need to turn into another shouting match where everybody comes out more upset. To be clear, this applies to everyone who participated in this thread, not just those who disagree with the decision.
If you have further feedback or just want to reiterate yourself, we're going to be posting a form for that in the coming weeks, as it's something that's been requested in the Discord. This is going to be paired with our next round of Community Manager applications, and will provide guidance for the next team. We would have done this sooner, but with the current CM term coming to an end, it'll be more useful to let the issue settle a little bit first and give the new team the most up to date information.
That said, I will respond to a few specific comments that have been made first. I know there are more concerns in this thread, but I don't want to reiterate myself too much from either this thread or the doc, so I'll just add what I think is new:
Rkool21: Speedrunning at its heart is a competition. Who can beat the game the fastest. Mashing is a very big part of this specific speedrun.
- Speedrunning is not only a competition. You cannot ignore the large part of the community that is speedrunning as a hobby. For them, this decision means the world, because people don't want to get hurt over their hobby.
- Mashing isn't strictly better for competition. I'm not telling you there's nothing good about it or that it shouldn't exist, I just want to point out there are many reasons why it actually hurts competition. These are detailed very thoroughly in the document linked in the announcement. I would encourage you to read it.
I just want to make it clear that people come to this game for many different reasons, and we're trying to accommodate everyone at once. Please understand that it's not easy.
JustNZane: All I want to know is, was the decision to allow uncapped turbo on a merged board, a way to get rid of mashing all together?
Sorry that it took me a bit of time to type out the response, I saw you ended up asking again.
I know it might seem like this is the case, but it's not. The reason why the boards are still merged (as detailed in both the doc and this announcement) is because it's the only way speedrun.com allows us to provide both a split and combined view. We have runners asking for both, so this is the only way we can fulfill that. If we had an option to view a combined board either way, then we would consider making the default view split. Unfortunately, that's not an option, so it's out of the question for now.
Slight terminology clarification: it's not uncapped. It's capped to 21hz. The idea that 20hz is the fastest the game will allow is a misconception that was disproven back in late 2021/early 2022, so I want to point that out before continuing.
Everything I'm about to say is already detailed in the doc, but we do care a lot about mashing. The CMs are representatives of this community, and a large part of this community enjoys mashing, so we want to leave room for it. If we wanted to completely eliminate mashing, we would consider setting the cap higher or banning non-turbo runs entirely, but that would ignore too much of the community, so we don't. We recognize how important this is to many runners, so we wanted to place the cap at least close to human perfection. 21hz turbo probably does outperform people in most situations, but there were many factors to consider like controller availability and the requests of other runners. We felt that still having the option to view a split board using filters, the other competitive benefits of 21hz, and the increases in availability all made the loss in some aspects of competitive integrity worth it. This was a complex decision, and can't be reduced down to a single issue.
Hopefully that addresses your concern. If you (or anyone else) have any further questions, feel free to DM me on Discord, it should be linked to my SRC account.
The CMs put a lot of thought into the non-turbo runners who will be affected. We value mashing pretty highly, as the development of it has been a very important part of this game for a long time. Unfortunately, we also need to serve many people who don't value this and want to run the game without injury, so we had to try to balance these factors. I understand if you're upset by this decision, but there was no decision we could've made that wouldn't upset someone, so we needed to minimize the damage. To quote the document:
We want mashing to be viable and fun for those who enjoy it most and want to do it despite turbo being strong. This is impossible to some degree, for the same reasons that weak turbo is unviable. Some people will never be able to mash fast enough to keep up with turbo. We hope that the use of one of speedrun.com’s better features can alleviate this somewhat. It’s not a perfect solution (mainly due to requiring multiple clicks), but speedrun.com allows the leaderboard to be filtered by variables . . . This is identical to a subcategory split, and allows a user to see a ranking of all non-turbo runs. This, in addition to the Boss Rush leaderboards remaining split, will hopefully encourage runners who enjoy mashing (and can do so without risk of injury) to continue to mash and develop the artform. It’s a very important part of Dread and can’t be entirely discarded.
Other than that, I want to address one of your specific claims:
The mod team is made up of people who sat around talking about the game instead of running and improving like those of us who even cared enough to learn raking.
More of the CMs currently play this game than not. I have no idea where this is coming from, but it's very disrespectful to the immense work put into the moderation of the leaderboards, moderation of the Discord, leaderboard verification, and event organization. Also, there are many runners of this game that are disabled or have other injuries preventing them from learning to rake. This isn't always for a lack of trying.
non board split decision not made because of bluntness, it was made because no one would ever click over to a turbo run.
Please don't misrepresent the ruling. The decision not to split the leaderboard was not made because "no one would ever click over to a turbo run". It was made because there's a very large part of the community asking to be able to compare both turbo and non-turbo runs, and if we split it this option would become available. It's clunky to use filters, but it at least leaves the option available to view a split board. This is covered in detail in the document linked in this announcement.
Turbo runs are less than/irrelevant runs.
Be more respectful to the runners of this game. Turbo runs are not "irrelevant". They make up a large portion of the leaderboards and this game's history, and many turbo runners have contributed greatly to this game's development.
We have a lot of info on this on the Dread Speedrunning Wiki! You can read about it here.
The 8BitDo Pro 2 is still recommended, just note that you'll need to downgrade the firmware to use turbo on it. We use a version that has a slower fire-rate in order to fit under the turbo Hz cap (13hz). You can find information on the controller here.
[quote=GUIGUI_]Very nice. just one question, why are there only the standard and Dread category? Why not include Hard?[/quote] I'm not sure why you're responding to an unrelated 2 month old post, but Standard refers to all non-Dread mode difficulties. Hard runs are submitted as Standard. The difficulty categories were merged like this months ago because they are extremely similar overall and were unpopular when split.
In the future, please make new threads to discuss things not relevant to the original post.
[quote=karterfreak]If that's the case you may want to update the banned list on SRC for glitchless as shortboost is not specified as something banned.[/quote]Thanks for the heads-up, this has been fixed.
[quote=martin_cast92]Thank you!! And I got a question, can I do some NMG to get this done? (I cant do shine sink for example hehe)[/quote]You can technically run them NMG, but in the case of MS% you should submit this as UR. For Belly%, you actually can't do any major glitches by the time the run finishes normally so this shouldn't be a concern. For Hypothermia%, you could take an alternative route to avoid shine sinking/cam lock, but it would be significantly slower, requiring you to take the normal way around to Gravity Suit.
[quote=karterfreak]So long as you aren't using any of the listed banned techniques in the rules, you can do sequence breaks.
Adam Save Skip, Early Screw with shortboost and Early Ice Missiles (without using WBJ) are allowed as a result.[/quote] Do you mean Early Screw with Water Space Jumps? Short Boost is classified as a glitch.
[quote=martin_cast92]Excuse me I know this might not be the thread but is there any category of speed running metroid dread which is somethign like "Finish the game as the developers made it for", I mean following the "normal secuence of teh game" Thank you[/quote] Correct, this is not the correct thread. Though, to answer your question, there is Intended% for this. It's not on SRC (and likely won't be added any time soon), but you can find out more by joining the discord server and asking about it.
For verification purposes, as long as it's unintrusive (not covering major parts of the game feed) and at least somewhat transparent I think it would be fine. Though definitely not preferred at all.
Shine sinks shouldn't be any different on different difficulties as far as I know. Are you doing them in the same place with the same set-up? Different "one tile" floors can be different levels of thickness, and the grapple angle can also make it easier or harder. If you're new to shine sinks as well they can just be incredibly inconsistent at first, and maybe you're just experiencing some placebo.
It would be extra minimal with ADM skip, as there's only 4 (?) ADAM rooms in the run currently
We are holding off on adding those for now. If we added it immediately we would be absolutely swamped by mass submissions.
DLC is banned because not everyone has them, so it's not an even playing field, I assume.
I know it saves 50 seconds in SMG1 in Any%. It doesn't really matter though once you go past Any%.
If I search on Speedrun.com for splits using LiveSplit, I can't find any for this game. Does anyone have a file for splits?
