After some discussion on discord, it was decided to create a thread here so it would both be more organized but also archived. Two Years ago, the discussion about creating a binding rule because some people were binding two actions to one key (You can read it here: https://www.speedrun.com/momo4/thread/1lytv ). At the time, it was decided to add the rule because people believed some stuff (like consistent fast rolljump cancels) were impossible to be achieved by human. We've learned since then that it was not only that those things were possible RTA without bindings but also not as hard as one would expect. At the same time, technology has advanced and macros are super easy to do (and would bypass moderation rule to show game inputs). Some games have rules against multiple bindings (like hat in time) and others even have guides on how to do that and some players setups (like Ori:de). If possible, post in this thread telling us if you're in favor or removing, modifying or just keeping this rule as it is. If you want, explaining why is also encouraged. Thank you all for your time

EDIT: This is about binding two actions to one key, and not macros (ex: timed scripts).

allowing macros/double binds just bcuz there is no 100% certainty while verifying would be the worst option. that'd be like allowing aimbots in FPS games just bcuz its sometimes hard to tell if somebodys aim is legit or not. if people can't do consistent rolljumps they gotta get better through practice like every other runner up to this point and not use cheap tricks. difficulties in verification shouldn't just lead to ppl sayin ahhhh whatever lets allow it then lmao. so the only 2 reasonable options imo are to either leave the rule as it is and trust that people won't be phony plus trust the moderators that they will see the obvious when some new kid comes along with 100% RJ accuracy or to amplify that rule. mandatory input viewers could be an option, not sure if that's really necessary tho (except maybe for top lvl runs). imo the best thing to do would be leavin the rule as is

Not an opinion, but an additional thing I'd like to mention: There was a discussion on Discord a while back about how even in ideal circumstances, Roll Jumping on separate buttons can be inconsistent depending on your hardware (and maybe software?). For some people, the inputs would come in on consecutive frames sometimes, both on controller and keyboard, while others would get RJ consistently even without practice (again, in ideal conditions, not when juggling RJing with other gameplay - that still requires practice).

While i could be oblivious to other capabilities a macro might have, somebody using a macro for rolljumping, no hit-lags, etc, really wont get them far in terms of a time on the leaderboard as the tricks involving the usage of multiple buttons (at the same time) make up a (somewhat) small portion of an average run. as rolljump canceling and rolljumps into dashes have you putting in the last input of those a moment after the start of them. this, how you approach the bosses, and simply just nailing your general movement are things that cant be done with a macro. even then, i still don't condone this. while i don't think new runners would flock to the chance, suggesting the usage of a macro could easily screw over runners who worked for a time in the upper 20s - lower 30s a bit. as a lot of the high risk strategies would become trivial, thus making something like sub 30 runs a cakewalk. because of this, i'd say keep the rule in place and avoid encouraging any degree of usage.

I'm glad to see people wanting to keep the rule in place, however the rule must be modified to include something that allows us to view controller setups. Previously there was no need to do so since controllers couldn't be modified by the average person but there are a lot more options now (notably, the Steam controller) that allow rebinding. As such we need a solution that includes this somehow.

I would say modifying the rule to require an input overlay like NohBoard ( https://obsproject.com/forum/resources/nohboard.44/ ) for keyboard inputs or Gamepad Viewer ( https://gamepadviewer.com/ ) for controllers wouln't be the the worst idea. I'm a fan of keeping the rule in place, regardless, but I think I agree with Pala that there has to be a way to see controller setups.

It may even be easily possible to fake inputs with the tools I linked but honestly the only next step I can think of is requiring a handcam and at that point I feel like that'd cut off a lot of people to running the game just from the sheer cost, whereas right now this is a game that can run and be recorded on most low-end laptops (I know because I used to be a runner on a low-end laptop).

This is one thing that makes me kinda worried about it. Forcing people to handcam is absurd IMO, and input viewers (both for keyboard and gamepads) don't really do much for this (since it would still show both input keys being pressed instead of the binded button).

Also I should note that this is NOT about macros (like scripts that could for example chain rolls or something), it's about binding two inputs on the same key. (will edit the main post)

If we did decide to make the rules more strict, when would it be necessary to? As of right now i can only think of 11 - 12 people that either actively run the game or have at least done a run as of this year. The tournament from last year had brought in a pretty decent amount, but at the same time a lot had also dropped off right after, so i wouldn't expect this next one to be too different.

I think the rule is fine as is. I guess for some new people it might sound ambiguous but that could be cleared by wording. Also, I agree with Tohloo here. Speedrunning is already largely "honor code" in practice and I don't see why all of this hubbub is about in the first place. No one was discovered cheating afaik. As far as requiring input display/handcams/etc., I believe this creates a needless barrier to entry. It's just making honest people jump through hoops to display inputs which already can be faked by anyone willing to go the distance to do so. Cheaters gonna cheat, so making life difficult for runners that won't seems to me like a weird effort.

Thank you all for your responses! After talking a bit with other mods we decided that leaving the rule as it is now is for the best, since as stated in this thread, making stricter rules would make it harder for honest people and not really for possible cheaters.