If you're doing that for runs that you verify on your own in other games - congrats and gg, same as with insta-verifications. The stage timer prompts make sense for games that don't have a glitched stage timer.

I'm very glad to hear that you're finally able to see the differences between various versions.

Exactly, I'm not discussing these things with you over DMs anymore because you have taken it too far.

As for the Enhanced version, nobody is denying the existence of it. And I'll leave it at that.

When it comes to introducing a rule for having to show the splits, that just doesn't add up, both literally and figuratively.

If you really want to beat other players' stage times then pause their videos a frame before they end a stage and do so with your videos too to check the lap time. That would be a reliable reference and a helpful way to track progress, not some random number. Sure, you can write those times in your own submission if you really want, but no way anyone is ever going to ask that of other runners for their submissions.

And no, not all of us have been adding them.

There haven't been any runs in a while at all and all the other remarks that you made can be easily checked by others if they examine such details that you are bringing up.

You're not complaining, you're just saying. Alright, but regarding the run verification I'll simply repeat: we're talking about literal hours here and a couple of days, not anywhere near 3 weeks. Let's be fair for a moment here. I also adressed all of your points now and many more before I asked you to turn off the DM Turbofire. The 21 day rule is probably not there because of Minecraft either.

Complaining about runs not being verified after only a few hours, 2 days, 3 days or even 5 days is a choice (of course it's gonna take a bit more time with DMs rapidly coming in on the side too). Your interpretation, your preferences and your own verification times are your own, but you can not use all of that to blackmail other moderators to give mod roles to players you suggest (nor by constantly saying how you're verifying runs faster - ok, good for you).

The enirety of your post proved that the later qoute from your intro has some truth in it, even when taken out of context like that. And thank Heavens for the drama-free spirit :D Imagine if it was the opposite :D

@MasterSystemMarceau you were DM-ing me for run verifications both here and on Discord when the runs were submitted only 2-3 days prior. More on run verification periods later.

Among the 5 runs that you said were waiting for verification, 3 of them were submitted within less than 24 hours before my reply here

1. Saturn being listed as a platform is there for a reason. There is the other Sega Ages disc available for Saturn (a compilation together with Hang-On and Space Harrier) that plays just like the Dreamcast counterpart as far as I know. It doesn't even feature the Arcade Easy and Saturn Extra Easy difficulties or 60 FPS.

2. Regarding the splits suggestion request: that is such an unecessary thing. Not only would it not be helpful at all, it might actually confuse players.

The timer glitch is well known by now and I would assume that you would be the first one to realize how pointless it is to write down faulty stage times in every submission since you said that you have discovered that on your own.

Proof for that: https://www.speedrun.com/outrunarcade/forums/41bof

Yes, you might be right about runners really writting down stage times in other OutRun versions, but other versions don't have the same bug for which you said you're aware of, so why are we even discussing this in the first place?

3. It is true that you were asked to show the DIP switches, it was in a friendly manner and I still verified every single run of yours that doesn't show them - before even asking that. I didn't even put a mod-note when verifying, reject it or anything of that sort.

At the end of the day it's not some sort of an enormous problem. Your runs without DIPs shown are as fresh as 6 days old, so I don't know why you feel there's any weight to your emphasizing that you have been doing it all the time ever since.

Looking at this situation alone I don't think adding additional rules will help with anything. The Saturn board that you just linked, that you created and that you mod has only 2 rules total. One is self-explanatory already from the category title, the other one doesn't limit anything.

Yet you want to overwhelm this board with more rules all of a sudden. Why?

4. I'm aware of Dahlor's run and like I already told you in the DM - Dahlor has been messaged about it, but it is always a good idea to at least try being polite when DM-ing people and not spam their inbox every single day when they open up the app. It's not that urgent. Also, it's always better to ask players in advance about adding their runs instead of adding them on your own.

5. As for Gemma's runs, everyone that's running this game for a while has seen those runs originally and we all know they are legit. Personally, I would not take them down.

You want somebody to message her about it? Hm, I'd like to make a joke about DMs here at this point, but I'll sustain myself from doing so.

Give it a bit of time, maybe they reappear or something. Patience is a virtue.

6. All your runs are verified now. What you didn't mention is that 3 out of your 5 runs in question were submitted within 4 hours (!!), 5 hours (!) and within less than a day before you opened this thread.

The stage layout you're looking for is Overseas. Most people are playing Out Run (sitdown/upright, Rev B) - that should be the default version when you have OutRun in Mame (the title should be lit, not dimmed out) and you're good to go with that.

Japanese layout has a slightly different stage order and some of the stages are different (Canyon has blue skies, Gateway is tougher, Wheat Field comes earlier and has less offroad objects that you can crash into and in that version it comes as the second stage if you take the first fork to the left).

That's the point. The rules are there and if they're not broken, it's not tolerable to accuse others of cheating, especially not in the way how you did right there. You can't put new rules and retroactively take down old runs and runners that did not do this extra step that was originally not mandatory at all (goes for both the camera and the mouse controls).

Discussing whether mouse controls give an advantage in certain situations and wether it should be accepted is another story. Not my preffered way of play either, but I doubt I could beat my own times using a mouse.

Now you 're going with this macro for a fast acceleration trick argument, really? Why would anyone macro for a 282 km/h start?

I think you're half way there with realizing how innapropriate this whole crusade of yours is since you mentioned that you're noticing other people not wanting to be a part of these discussions and leaving the site.

Calling it cheating is way overboard here, I thought I didn't have to say it and that a voice of reason coming from a player that is not a moderator (Nimn_One) would be enough for you. Not sure what to say anymore. Please keep these discussions on a respectful, civilised and polite level.

All Saturn version runs have been moved to the newly created Sega Ages OutRun (Saturn) leaderboard

While I can understand some of your points, I don't get it why we're talking about run credibility right now?

The thing that happened recently was the board split. The reason for that is because the game versions (Saturn and Arcade) are different, which I demonstrated in the previous thread (Saturn version handling) and everyone was able to share their thoughts before the split happened. My thread was visible there for 24 days.

I also tried to reach you to join the discussion because you're one of the two top Saturn runners, and you were not responding to my SRC message or my YT comments on your videos. I succesfully reached Marceau and he agreed with the split (which we can still discuss AND even undo if there's merit for it), but the handling is different in the two versions - which is a fact, and yes - I played OutRun on a real cabinet. While I never played it on the original Saturn hardware, I saw corners done on Saturn that are not possible on Arcade or Arcade emulators).

And I'm still inviting you to join that discussion, Shiro. It's better to discuss it now than hold a grudge and talk about it later when another unrelated subject is going to be discussed again.

Your number 1 time is still number one on Saturn, it's probably gonna stay like that for a while and you don't have to compete with Stella_Blue at all.

And while asking people to play on real hardware might be possible for Saturn, I really don't see how it could possibly apply to the Arcade version (merged with Saturn or separated, doesn't matter) - we would have 2-3 runs on a real cabinet, and that's in the best case scenario.

How do you force your brain to get used to this silly logic?

Is camera change allowed or banned?

And regarding Continous mode, can we agree on Traffic: 3 (done in previous runs from what I've seen) and put it in the rules as well?

Although it doesn't really get any submissions, somebody might request it at any time. As a speedrun category it's fully legit, not easy to do, and it's actually the fastest way of completing the game.

It can also be a very touchy subject, so I think it's better to let it stay than to negate the existence of this style of play, or delete a category and ban the technique (that is IMO awesome in its own way).

Something I've noticed recently when verifying and watching other players' runs done on Saturn, and then tested myself on Mednaffen.

There's corners that are well known for having mandatory speed drops on Arcade + Emulator, turns that you can't make without either dropping from Max speed or going Gear Gacha.

One of those speed drops is Alps - last big corner: (timestamp 2:49)

One other example is the first sharp corner in Cloudy Mountain. Difficult to pull off on Saturn, but literally impossible on Arcade + Emulator without dropping speed or going Gear Gacha: (timestamp 2:19)

Thoughts and discussions are welcome

So, what do you guys do with this? What's the suggested response? I see that now it keeps happening with every new OutRun Arcade YT video for both Splash Wave and Magical Sound Shower

Yeah, Xbox and PS pads are fair game, that's what most people here have used for their runs

If we keep adding a category for every version's difference - we'll end up with a chaotic and messy leaderboard with tons of categories. And how it started - I can already tell there's gonna be another runner tommorow taking down their runs and demanding a seperate category for Saturn's 60 FPS or for the Dreamcast's phony Ferrari logo XD

Saturn Extra Easy was a situation where one version had the advantage over every other version (including the original which is the basis for this leaderboard).

In the case of Yakuza/Shenmue, it's the other way around - all the other versions have the advantage over it because this version (which is actually a mini-game within a game) has limitations. And trying to accomodate to that would be like... going off-road, maybe even crashing, if you know what I mean.

Regarding your comment you made in the other thread, the one on the stricter timer - that doesn't play a role in speedruns. If you're aiming to get a top 5 time in any category, you'll finish any route even with the timer set to Hardest. Not sure what's the timer in Yakuza set to, Hard, I assume?

On top of all that, the fastest ever No Gear Gacha run is still done on Normal difficulty. So yeah, it's more difficult to compete that way, but that run proves it's possible (GemaEuphoria's route D is also Normal difficulty)

You sure you can't make Kazuma perform a Piledriver on an arcade machine to switch the settings? I'll answer in another thread that you created

Since we just had a Saturn submission which used that system's exclusive difficulty setting: Extra Easy, that difficulty has been added as a seperate category.

I've also been notified that some of the previously verified Saturn runs have used that difficulty, so those runs have been moved from the classic "No Gear Gacha" category to the newly created "Saturn Extra Easy" and the runner has been notified and has agreed with this decision.

For newly submitted "No Gear Gacha" runs done with the Saturn version - if you're emulating, please try to use Rev A of the game. Other revisions might be accepted - but in that case, the shoulder-camping trick that is exclusive to Rev B is not allowed *

   > The same principle as with the difficulty setting applies here - we want to make it fair and we don't want to give an advantage to one version over all the other versions that are allowed.

Lastly, the "show dipswitches/difficulty". I don't think runs should be rejected if a runner actually doesn't show it, but it's a good idea to encourage people to do so from now on, especially if the game is going to have more competition and tighter times at the top, going forward.

• I'm not 100% sure about each revisions characteristics, but I think the trick is present in Rev B, but not Rev A (I don't have access to the Saturn version at the moment, so I can't test it right away). If somebody is able to figure this out while playing the Saturn revisions - please let me know so I can adress it accordingly

It's an fan-made enhanced version. Sure, it does use assets of the original game, but so does the M2's Switch/3DS version. In that game you can also match the settings to somewhat represent the original feel, with timer intact, 30 fps and all that. And we don't allow the Switch version, there is a seperate board for that game. If you really want to run Cannonball and if for some reason you can't install Mame I suggest you create a seperate board for this fan-project. I might do a run or two as well.

Submitting a Cannonball run here is like submitting a Streets of Rage Remake run on the SOR2 boards with the comment "I matched the settings and used the SOR2 route & character".

Or using a SMB hack version not licensed by Nintendo claiming that it can match the original for the entirety of the run and submitting it to SRC as a SMB run. It's not even about advantages or disadvantages at that point.

I'll adress it in the rules, ruleboard update is incoming anyway.

So, what's the final consensus on this? Are the Replay Burners records getting removed, or they're staying?

Good points, TC. I agree with most things that you have said and thanks for making that video.

I'd just like to add a few things, kinda feel it's still discussion-worthy. In their defense (Replay Burners), they do have a lot of legit plays. I don't follow them super closely, but they tend to upload some playthroughs or even speedruns from some verified players. The beat 'em up plays usually look legit and you can find a lot of names that they credit, good example that comes to mind is a Korean arcade enthusiast named Janet who is known to set some records even on the original hardware and I'm pretty sure you won't be seeing him ever fiddling with any TAS footage.

The Sega super scroller "speedruns" always looked insane to me, but I was just thinking it's some crazy JPN players who have been grinding since 1986, lol.

There's a lot of crazier things happening on SRC, believe me. Mods sometimes try to find the best plays to showcase some optimal play and strats since there's just a few runs out there, and to be honest - for any plathroughs or even speedruns from 11 years ago - facecams, handcams, input displays and splits were just not the norm/standard yet. JPN footage is pretty difficult to verify too, since a lot of times you have real players but it's a different part of the world and you can't expect them to use the same platforms/social media like the US/EU players.

But yeah, it doesn't make much sense if those runs are held as the very best and are considered as the WRs, if you have other people who actually put tons of effort but are not considered WR holders just because they can't beat TAS plays.