GreeceAs mentioned in the previous post, here are some arguments for both sides:
We can look at similar cases on the website and other communities. Mario Kart 8 vs Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (pre-dlc) separated primarily on the basis of mechanics, the entire Darkstalkers (Vampire) series on similar terms and so forth. List can go on, but to make it straightforward there is an argument to be made from a top-down perspective that Grimm Eclipse Definitive Edition is its own game.
We can also look at it from a run perspective. What does combat look like between the original Grimm Eclipse (2016) and Definitive Edition (2021)? One argument can claim it is quite different. An ability like heavy synergy functions completely differently. In the original game, it is a way to effectively stun enemies very often, by getting team attack prompts on them. In the Definitive Edition, it can actually be a hindrance, since instead of serving as free stun, team attacks make you unable to animation cancel without activating them. Even such a small difference contributes to how combat is approached, especially in something like Eclipse which isn’t often talked about. Further differences like this exist, due to the changes made by the developers. Basically, a PS4 run will be nearly identical to a PC run, running on the same fps, but a run on Definitive edition will look different, from the build to the execution (this also means that if Definitive Edition is ever released on another platform and functions on the same build, those other platforms would be grouped together with that LB and not the original).
The above are a collection of arguments in why a separation is justified. I would also like to present a baseline for an opposing view. The reason this hasn’t been really looked into before is due to a lack of interest on the community side, plus the potential of how many categories would be created (even though that last part gets recontextualized when considering a new LB). Furthermore, there is a topic of reaching a critical number of RWBY games (3 games qualifies a set of games for a speedrun.com series), opening up a can of worms for the potential of series moderation and placing the Grimm Eclipse family of games under potential difficulties much later on (such as series mods not selected by the GE community having influence over the games in some capacity down the line). While it is impossible to know how this will play out, it is important to make this fact known. Finally there is the uncertainty of the playerbase. While on one hand it could be argued such a separation would encourage and attract some casual players, there is the risk of spreading the existing playerbase even thinner than it currently is.
Hey everyone, once again writing on behalf of the mod team. Similar to sentiments echoed in previous discussions, we always attempt to make changes to leaderboards to support community needs. Recently, in our discord, there has been conversation about the Definitive Edition of Grimm Eclipse (released for the switch), and how it falls in line with other versions of the game. Over conversation between runners, certain points have come up that needed addressing, especially whether or not the Definitive Edition belongs on the same leaderboard as the original game. Thus, we will have a special community vote on this issue, that will be quite important for the leaderboards going forward.
What this is not: This is not a discussion about hardware. While the switch has the worst hardware and it does affect performance, this is not a discussion on leaderboard separation due to hardware. It is truly impossible to moderate hardware and settings in Grimm Eclipse, because even the same computer could have different FPS in-game if you switch to using a monitor with different refresh rate. While in the ideal world there would be some type of distinction, it is unrealistic to separate things like control schemes and ways to hold controllers, which can affect APM as much as FPS in certain cases.
What this IS about: This is a discussion about software. The question is whether or not, the product titled “definitive edition”, is a separate game. The game is published by a different publisher (Farbridge), and developed by a different studio (aspyr). It adds content (in the form of cosmetics and gamemode - local multi), it features patch specific changes (major ursa in gauntlet, no longer available on other version of the game), and most importantly it changes the fundamental way of how the game is played, by changing the counter and interact actions to be one of the same.
Due to the length of this post, some arguments for both sides will be posted as a follow up comment on this forum (speedrun.com did not allow me to post everything in one post).
Due to the importance of this topic, the poll for this topic will be slightly more constructed than previous ones. While anonymity will remain in terms of votes when results are shared, we will ask that the actual vote is not submitted anonymously (you will see the form ask for your src name). Due to the serious implications of this decision for the leaderboards, the voting will be limited to runners (any individual who has submitted a speedrun to the main boards or category extensions is allowed to participate) so we will need to verify there is only one vote per runner.
Thank you for taking the time to review the post. We encourage further discussion in this forum. You can place your vote here: https://forms.gle/gJSuA1sez6CGmRKN6
The form will be open until 5/21/25 11:59PM PDT
Hey everyone, I am writing on behalf of the mod team. As always, we try to make changes appropriate to community sentiment. The issue of using gvk’s mod to select Horde/Gauntlet lobbies recently came up, and we wanted to have a community vote on how we should move forward. To clarify, this involves accessing said lobbies through the “single player” option during a speedrun that requires entering said stages, something that is not normally possible without the mod.
As a reference, here as some arguments that have been presented regarding both sides:
For allowing:
- Makes it so the single player version of these categories are not reliant on internet connection to set up lobbies (this can be argued to make the category more accessible to those with worse internet)
- Makes it so you do not have to worry about friends joining the lobby during a single player run of those categories (this has no effect on multiplayer runs which retain the issue)
For banning:
- This menu provides an objective advantage in the speedrun that is only obtained through external manipulation of the game (not replicable on a vanilla copy). This would also mean that everyone would have to download and use the mod, since there is currently no known downside
- Not available on other platforms such as Playstation/Xbox
This is just a summary of some recent discussions, so we encourage users to contribute to the discussion by posting their opinions in this forum.
Please vote in the following poll to decide how we should proceed with the single player Horde and Gauntlet categories going forward.
https://strawpoll.com/X3nkPDeBKgE
We will tally the results of the poll on 5/21/25 11:59PM PDT
Categories have been created. Category names and definitions may change/be revised as we find out more about the game over the next few weeks.
Extending embargo period a bit due to low discord activity for speedrunning (no rush to open it), paired with the fact many players online are still working towards true ending spoiler free. Will just add a few days.
Hey all, the LB has been offficially created. Please post here with any suggestions or discussions leading up to the release of the game next week.
We can potentially add a second category for it, would you like to submit some sample runs?
Also to make sure this is clear, rules for main game runs will remain unchanged, as those are explicitly defined and consistent already. This vote is exclusively for IL runs.
I sent a private dm about this a few days ago, but would be happy to add someone in as a mod to make these changes.
I can vouch for DBcade organizing this, so if any runners are thinking about submitting I would strongly recommend it.
To avoid emulation issues, and provide accurately emulated runs, the rules have been updated with some required emulation settings.
WR runs will need to show emulation settings starting today.
All modifications are not allowed in general. Just explictly stating autolink since we had many people ask specifically back in the day.
Hey there, they are allowed, will add them in.
Will be contacting winners within the week.
It appears he did not go for it ;-;
During his most recent run submission, MrLee64 submitted a spliced run.
Evidence of the splice is mainly found in the final two combo challenges, were a set of inputs briefly appears before the challenge is performed "first try" indicating that the challenge had been previously attempted in both cases and had been edited out of the video.
I covered this in a video here to also show in real time the video that was submitted, and a comparison to what it should look like in-game:
MrLee64 will be banned from submitting to our leaderboards indefinitely, and his current runs will also be rejected.
It is sad to see cheating occur in the doa6 space, the doa community is already small and rarely sees as much activity as it has in the past 6 months. I hope this remains an isolated incident in the community, and we all work together to maintain to best community and leaderboard we can.
With the update today there is a new panel added to the all star battle mode. Maybe legacy the current versions (under a msic category) and create a new version for the current update?
Also is there a good reason to separate old file and new file versions of all-star battle? Just curious.
