United KingdomHey everyone,
I'm looking for one or two moderators to help with verifying and timing speedruns for the White Day 2 leaderboard. Plus, I'd love to have your input in chats and when making decisions.
It's also important that you have a good amount of experience playing the game and know how players are speedrunning it.
Realistically, things will be pretty chill most of the time since White Day 2 isn't the most popular speed game out there. But there's still stuff to take care of, and I've been super busy lately so I could really use a helping hand.
Most of your time will probably be spent retiming runs, as the leaderboard uses Load Removed Time (LRT). This requires removing the time spent loading from each submission.
To do this, I recommend the following process:
(1) Download the run using yt-dlp, which supports YouTube, Twitch, Bilibili, and most other platforms. (2) Open the video in Unload, and set the first frame of the run (first input) and the final frame of the run (ending cutscene). (3) Use Unload to detect the time spent loading by using the flower icon that appears during loading screens. And verify that the automatic detection got it right.
I think this method is quite quick and painless, but if you need any assistance I'm more than happy to help.
Of course, you are more than welcome to do things differently, as long as it's accurate.
If you're interested, please reach out to me on speedrun.com or Discord (emuyia). You can also find me on the White Day Community Server.
Thanks for your support!
Hi, welcome!
Just wanted to make it known that there is a White Day community discord server, where most of the discussion about speedrunning White Day 2 has taken place so far.
So, I'll leave an invite: https://discord.gg/XCq6RCwM
This is not to discourage posting here as well, of course.
Hi, just wanted to detail some new-ish strats for death%. New to me anyway!
(1) Sung-ah has two animations when you annoy her -- one where she puts her hands on her hips, and one where she stomps her foot. When she stomps her foot, you can back away from her and she will resume her pathing before you can annoy her again. When she has her hands on her hips, you can't, because her animation takes too long. So good RNG is when she stomps her foot often, allowing you to get closer to the bathroom cutscene. It seems like a 50/50 chance whether she'll do one or the other.
(2) The second strategy is "game over skip"... I don't know how it works, or who found it, but if you spam the Esc key right after Hee-min is fatally wounded and starts falling to the ground, sometimes the game over text will appear early, and end the playthrough more quickly. In death% it seems to save about 2-3 seconds.
I ran a test to compare how loading times may affect the IGT, and the results seem to indicate that the game does not take into account load times.
The way I performed the test was by installing White Day to a very slow USB 2.0 external HDD, and comparing its IGT to my usual SSD installation.
I used cheat engine on both to enable fast movement speed & saving without a pen in order to cut out as much gameplay as possible.
I started the RTA timer as soon as the loading screen comes in. (Keep in mind that means the opening cutscene just before the loading screen is missing from the RTA, but that's not important for this test.) The RTA timer ends the frame after confirming to save the game.
Anyway, here are the results:
USB 2.0 HDD: 22.57 (RTA), 11.00 (IGT) SSD: 11.08 (RTA), 10.00 (IGT)
The HDD installation was twice as slow RTA, but the IGT is essentially the same. The 1 second difference could easily be put down to slight differences in my gameplay. (In fact, you can see my menu navigation looks slower in the HDD test).
There may be factors I failed to control for which could make the results unreliable, so do let me know if you think of anything like that, but this does seem to indicate load times are not included in the IGT.
Hello!
Crazycider and other members of the chinese community have made suggestions to change some things about the current rules for 100% Ghosts and 100% Collection. I want to ask the rest of the community for their opinions and votes on what should happen. Or if you don't mind what happens, just saying you don't mind is also very helpful.
I will explain as best I can the situation, pros and cons, etc. so you can feel informed when giving your thoughts.
First issue - Fox ghost encounter:
Firstly, in case you don't know how the trigger for collecting the fox ghost works, the game needs her to attack for you to add the ghost to your collection. However, the chance for her to attack is 50%, and the encounter cannot be repeated for the purposes of a speedrun.
In the 100% Ghosts category, the current rule for the fox ghost encounter is that you must hear her song in full, but that it's okay if you get bad RNG in the end and she doesn't attack - you can just move on.
The reason this was decided is because adhering to the game's collection rules would essentially mean 50% of all runs would need to be reset over halfway through.
Now, the proposed change for the rule is to allow the player to run straight to the new building, instead of listening to her full song. You'd still need to trigger her encounter by looking at her claws, but no need to stand around for the full song.
Pros and cons:
In my opinion, the strongest argument in favour of this change is that the player will no longer have to arbitrarily decide when the song is over before moving on. The song's "ending" is subjective, and there's nothing indicating when it's over other than the player's judgement. With the current rules, things could get potentially very awkward to moderate. For example, if runners start looking for ways to save time during this encounter, the logical way to do it is to stretch the definition of "the end of the song" as much as possible.
Other potential arguments in favour of this change:
- Being attacked by the fox ghost has big consequences for running the game on hell mode, which is necessary in the 100% Collection category. Your stamina is drained and you're at a significant disadvantage.
- You no longer have to stand for 90 seconds doing nothing.
- At this point, the 100% Ghosts category's rules are mostly whatever we deem to be an 'encounter', rather than what the game deems to be an 'encounter'. e.g. The head ghost is not required, and the mannequin encounter can be cut short.
Problems with this change:
- The 100% Ghosts record will suddenly be up for grabs (kind of), due to the 60-90 seconds saved by leaving early.
- The current rules do at least allow you to have a chance at collecting the fox ghost the way the game intends (even if you are let off for bad RNG).
Second issue - Allowing 1 death in 100% Collection:
For those who don't know, 100% Collection is a new category where you must collect all 20 ghosts (subject to exceptions), all 20 ghost stories and all 7 figurines. No deaths are allowed, and since you must collect the figurines, the game must be played on hell mode.
As a whole this is an extremely difficult category to even complete, let alone speedrun. However there are a couple of runs that have been performed by Chinese players, and curiously they both take advantage of a bug that requires you to die on purpose, but which makes the category much more manageable.
You see there's actually a bug in the New Building which gets rid of the janitor entirely. It involves dying right after the doppelganger boss fight by going to Eun-ah, and respawning there. Then he's gone.
Therefore the suggestion is that we allow 1 death to take advantage of that bug, which would make the category more accessible / enjoyable.
Pros & cons:
The glaring issue with this is with the way the in-game timer works. If you die, the in-game timer actually reverts back to the last checkpoint, meaning no time is lost if you die. That means you could technically die infinitely and lose no time according to the in-game timer.
Initially this would seem like a big problem for ever allowing deaths in any category at all, since some time is 'forgotten'.
However, if you watch how the bug works, it involves going to Eun-ah to die, and then simply respawning right back next to Eun-ah, where you just died. A checkpoint seems to be made for Eun-ah right before her encounter, or as a result of dying to her. So it seems like no meaningful time is forgotten when you perform this bug.
And so, in this one ocassion, it could be argued the IGT isn't an issue, and it's just up to us to decide whether the bug is allowed or not.
If you want to see the bug, player Tommy performed it in his 100% Collection run at 33:43 in this video: ""
So I know this is a long post, but I really appreciate anyone taking the time to read through it and telling me what they'd be happy with. You don't have to think about this as much as I have, or write about it as much as I have - I have chosen to do that of my own free will. 😅
That said these issues can get a bit complicated, and where possible, I want to answer for the Chinese community on behalf of our community, rather than on behalf of just myself.
Some interesting glitches which could lead to something in future:
At 50 seconds in: (Source: https://cafe.naver.com/whitedaymaze/13307 )
At 1:20 in: ( Source: https://cafe.naver.com/whitedaymaze/13308 )
Ladder glitches & other stuff found by puregoodboy:
Hey all. I was just wondering, was there a reason no deaths are allowed in each of the categories? I'm not proposing to change it necessarily, but I'm a relatively new moderator & I'm not sure what the reason was for that rule. Maybe older players or moderators know?
Dying loses a ton of time, and usually means the run would be over anyway, but I never knew why that time loss disqualifies the run.
EDIT: As I wrote below, I tested it, and it seems that the reason is because being sent back to the last checkpoint rolls back the timer as well. You could theoretically die as many times as you wanted to without affecting the timer. Therefore the rule should stand.
New route saves anywhere from 8 to 13 seconds (heavily depending on execution). This was performed with Ji-min. Hee-min runs are untested.
The video comparison demonstrates about a 12 second difference!
The routes diverge right after you pick up the class A extinguisher.
If it's not clear in the video, the glitch involves mounting the fallen stage lighting at 1:05, walking across the beam, then clipping through the wall by running up against it + clicking the electrical fire. After picking up the valve handle, you can trigger the QT event at the door behind you, then click on the oil fire (using a class B extinguisher), and quickly exit out of the action, and run out.
EDIT: Seems this is only possible for Ji-min. Hee-min's collision doesn't let you get close enough to the electrical fire to click it.
EDIT: Guide to position yourself correctly for the skip:
Hi everyone! Just wanted to say that a speedrunning channel has been made on the White Day discord server. Feel free to join!
Hey, what do we think the rules should be for the fox spirit encounter in 100% ghosts runs? I've done some tests and it seems completely random whether or not she does the 'attack' at the end. I did the same movement 10 times and she attacked in 5. And the attack seems necessary to unlock it in your ghost collection.
There's a couple runs that got accepted in the past which don't encounter it like the others. One of them continues without the attack, and the other moves on without letting the fox spirit finish.
Any opinions?
Hi everyone, I'm practicing the 100% ghosts category and have run into a question about the mannequin ghost in MB2.
I've seen a couple of runs on the leaderboard purposely get hit by the mannequin to end the encounter ASAP, but the requirement for adding that ghost to your collection is actually to dodge it until you regain your stamina.
The rules say to view each ghost, but does that mean to add each ghost to your collection, or simply to encounter them in some way?
I just wanted to ask for some clarity about that. For now I will be on the safe side and do the full mannequin encounter.
