Unfortunately I don't think "worse control scheme" really covers it. Touch screen is one thing, but imagine you wire up a real controller with a blade dash button. Then you have a strict advantage gameplay-wise over runners of any other versions. While consistent blade dashing obviously isn't everything, you'd be a fool not to use insane tools like that. It's just not comparable in the long run. All things considered, I think I'm convinced that the run is different enough in terms of gameplay to separate it from the main leaderboard.

Can't help but notice that basically every run has been on PS1. Is it the superior version, or just most accessible? If the other releases are different, then are they different enough that there would be strat deviation?

My instinct is to agree to time without loads, but I just don't feel like it's totally justified yet. Yes, it makes sense and seems largely beneficial, but why do it now only for Saturn Maria when the other consoles have the same issue? Basically if we decided before not to equalize PS & 360, or PAL/NTSC, I don't know why the decision here would be different. I'd love to vote for timing without loads, but I guess I need a little more convincing.

I was beaten to the punch :(

In the absence of Ghostscit, I made these changes myself. Again, if this looks wrong to anybody else then please let me know!

The current rules for this game say to start timing when you select new game and end after credits say "end." However, the time of Cacodemon's run as listed would therefore be over an hour (about 1:00:08 by my best effort). Instead the listed time is 55:48, which I can't understand - by every timing method I know of, I couldn't come up with that time. My best guess is that it was retimed with SDA rules (start at new game, end at final hit on Geist) but was then mistyped. That's just because I tried timing with those rules on my own and got 54:48, exactly one minute less than the listed time, and 6 seconds slower than Cacodemon's own timing method which was SDA rules but starting from first cutscene.

So - if I'm missing something I'm happy to be corrected, otherwise it seems to me that both Cacodemon's time on here and the rules should be amended to match modern timing conventions.

What exactly is the justification for using IGT? Because if it's just something like tradition then switching to real time seems like the most obvious solution, and I'd be willing to help out re-timing existing runs if you guys decide on that.

As for the other three solutions proposed by Yami, I have to agree with Maxy that allowing farming as it has been would be detrimental to the game moving forward. The precedent has also already been set by rejecting Snawk's run. However, if you are going to either reject or separate into subcategories, I think the rules for those divisions have to be very explicit given the potential for minor variations like Yami's example of grabbing the untouchable during mission 13-14 intermission. I'm personally inclined to be against creating the separate categories, just for the fact that the community is small enough as it is. And while I'm at it, imo defining rules for a speedrun based on "developer's intent" is way too arbitrary and nebulous, especially when it's not even glitchless.

Of course I don't even run this game myself, so feel free to disregard :v

I've been searching for a new speedgame recently and this one is looking sick, so I'll probably give the Allen run a shot regardless. That said, having the extra 2 player category would make learning the game that much sweeter. So somebody please school me on this game - would co-op runs be any faster, or would it just be a single player run with extra baggage? Has anybody ever attempted it before and if so are there any recordings?

Ahh sick, thanks guys

So I'm returning to this game after some years and relearning Richter all bosses atm, but there's one specific movement which I can't replicate while watching through the current wr. In the last room of alchemy lab, he slides off a ledge and whips while falling, sending him fast enough horizontally to hit the wall before air slashing. The same movement is used at a couple other points as well, like Olrox's room. When I do the same, I don't get nearly the same distance. Is there a hidden input in there? Something else I haven't learned about momentum?