Comments
Latedog8 years ago

The question that needs to be answered is, why do you really want clips added? Should the speedrun use them simply because they would save time? If you're not using all possible timesaves then the category is not being played true? In the end, everything that's been decided is arbitrary. We use OoB, we don't use alt, there's already a discrepancy.

All of the other glitches that are allowed are there because the community agreed upon them already. I wasn't there for those and I can accept the ones that are used today. The difference is that this time I am here, and I will make the effort to defend what I believe in because otherwise nobody else would question it. I can't make you not use them if choose to, never forced that on anyone. However, I won't because I don't think it's fun in the same way we don't think alt is fun, something I think you can understand.

Whether a rule on this is ever passed, official or not, it'll be runner's choice.

Latedog8 years ago

The rules on what is allowed during a run differs from game to game, it all depends on what that community agreed on. Major glitches are banned from 100% runs all the time. Why degrade the great speed game that meat boy is in order to arbitrarily cut the time down? You should be looking at it from both points of view. You, the player, and you and everyone else, as the viewers. Is it more exciting to watch a player jump straight to the finish? Or to skillfully traverse it? This is why the any% (glitched) category exists. It's unpopularity is also no coincidence.

Now can you explain to me why you chose not to use any clips in the segmented 106 project? I can save you time and tell you right off the bat that whatever the reason, it's irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that you decided to not use them, and this would create a double standard. Segmented runs and single segment runs of the same game share the same set of rules. If you then allow clips to be used at leisure, then you'd have to go back and redo all of the levels in the segmented 106 project to include clips purely out of principle!

And it's honestly not difficult to tell when somebody is trying to abuse clips and when they're not. Off the top of my head, the only levels I can think of where this would be of any concern is 4-12 and 4-12x. Almost every other level would require the player to go out of their way to attempt the clip in the best spot, which is all too obvious. I can't recall a single time where an accidental clip ended up beneficial. In fact, most of the time it results in time being lost (see: 5-17 on my NLL run; a 1.5s loss).

Let's assume a man (who is not under the influence) is at fault for an accidental collision with a pedestrian and the pedestrian is killed. Now on the other side we have a man who is convicted of premeditated murder. Both scenarios resulted in the same outcome, somebody was killed, so both parties should receive equal punishment, no? Of course not! It's the same idea here. It's not rocket science to figure out when a clip is being gone for.

If you're genuinely adamant about wanting to allow clips, then the only option would be to split 106% into 2 different categories. Historically, though, this has been challenged and denied.

One last note, you'll notice I specifically addressed it as "the speedrun" and not "speedrunning" in general. Ultimately, speedrunning's main purpose should be to invoke enjoyment or pleasure. As earlier mentioned, the rules vary on a case-by-case basis and this is absolutely no different. Omitting glitches from certain runs is standard practice. The inclusion of intentional clips, in my opinion, detracts from the run and adds nothing to it other than to artificially achieve a better time.

I'll leave this strawpoll here simply as a general consensus: http://strawpoll.me/7349269

Mijzical likes this
Latedog8 years ago

It doesn't matter if the rule is overcomplicated or not. The whole point is to maintain the integrity of the game/category.

We allow timer freezing, and I believe that to be okay because it doesn't take away the fact that you still need to complete it properly at least once. We allow autojumping which sometimes allows for some cool strategies or makes a level easier, but doesn't completely trivialize things (e.g. failing the inputs).

If we're just going to clip every single level that it would benefit us on, then that takes away the purpose of the speedrun, that is, to demonstrate skill. Make clips legal? Allow for alt glitch to be used, too. They effectively accomplish the same thing which is to go through walls in order to create shortcuts that aren't there. Throw in Kid skip. We know we can complete the levels, so might as well cut out the middleman right? No, it's to maintain the integrity of the run.

And if what you say is true about some clips being easier because of a person's specific hardware, which I assume is referring to playing at less than a stable 60 frames, then that's all the more reason to not allow them. No "official" rule has ever been created because it hasn't been an issue until this very moment, but I have not and will not ever attempt to abuse clips.

Litchi likes this
Latedog8 years ago

The context is what happens if you clip unintentionally and ends up working out in your favor. To clarify, actively trying to clip should not be practiced while an accidental clip can be forgiven. If you were to ban clips entirely, then any random clip would render the run invalid which would be asinine-- so I can't just say "Ban all runs that clip!!". Again, it's just a matter of trusting the player to be fair and not abuse the condition.

Latedog8 years ago

Me from Discord awhile ago: "Clipping in 106 is considered fine since you can't generally control when it happens. If it happens, you roll with it and continue on. However, I do not encourage others to attempt clips intentionally as a matter of good player principles." ... "it's both 'random' and less skillful than to do a level properly".

Mijzical likes this
Latedog8 years ago

This information has been eating the back of my mind since it came to light. Although I didn't know leimao closely, it /feels/ like I've lost a close friend.

Thank you for informing us Taioro. I am truly sorry this happened. I can say nothing more, as the words are simply robbed from my psyche while I continue to process this.

WanderPlays, curtis and 2 others like this
Latedog8 years ago

I feel this is somewhat due in part to how I've done ILs historically, so I can elaborate further on those points.

Sound effects should definitely be required for obvious reasons, but music is a bit of a 50/50. For one, it's just not very appealing to have random music blasted the second you start watching a video. The in-game music makes it more official and "professional" if you will. In-game music shouldn't be necessary and in my opinion is fine to turn off since I understand many may grow tired of it. Personally, I think if the player is going to play other music, keep it on the quieter side.

The reason I show the replay is three-fold: it can be fun to watch, to see the time I got, and makes the video feel more complete. It's not for legitimacy purposes and I can fathom no argument for requiring this to be kept.

Going back to the map is, again, to see the time I got. You could argue this can be necessary to some degree since if a video is not in 60fps, you may not be able to see the final time. It's a small nitpick and this can probably end up being waived. If your time is glitched, the time fixer program still exists and anybody is free to use it.

The bottom line is yes, I agree that the only requirements needed are the live run and sound effects. Anything else is player preference.

About Latedog
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