California, USAThe "Stock Only" category WILL be added as an official speedrun category for all MVM levels. But I need to know first if canteens should be ALLOWED or NOT in the category.
For those who haven't stated their opinion already, please say yes or no if you want canteens banned in the "Stock Only" category.
Keeping them in will likely change how the stock only category is played significantly. But since canteens are still technically a "stock item" , it would not be right to disallow them. Feel free to discuss other aspects of the issue as well.
Make sure to also continue to vote on whether to add in the 'No Cheesing' category.
I can confirm that I talked to him about this and I need to gage interest before adding these new categories.
Please say yes or no to whether you want to see these two categories added. You can say yes to just one of them as well but make sure you specify which.
Also feel free to suggest changes to the categories, but it's up to the poster if they want to incorporate your suggestions.
I have no interest in making this an official category. Playing against other humans in a speedrun setting is fundamentally flawed because you can make literally anything happen in a pub and It would be hard to know if anything was not staged. The category itself is also too arbitrary. I get the meme of becoming a spy main but some of the splits like clicking on a YouTube video and saying curse words in chat doesn't make too much sense for doing something fast for a video game. I know other games have gimmicky speedrun categories, but TF2 doesn't get enough runners to warrant more categories.
They fixed bots suicide in the latest update... people can now submit runs again!
There are 100s of jump maps out there so there's no way we can have a category for each one, even if we only do the more popular maps that's still too much. Besides there's already a site keeping good track of the jump times: https://tempus.xyz/maps Jump_academy tends to update once in a while with new jumps so it would be inconsistent to keep track of scores on that particular jump map. Thank you for your suggestion though!
Thanks for the find Lagloyavich. I have confirmed it happens on my end as well. I'll discuss with another mod to see what we want to do about this. In the meantime we will not be verifying scriptless runs, and probably scripted runs as well. I will also contact Valve support since this is actually a broken main feature of the game.
Time save not devastatingly high... but it still saves time. Nice fine!
So yea in pretty much all respects, it's an invisible wall, it seems to have the same characteristics as the barrier in the training room (which also doesn't show outlines and you can shoot through it). 
Nice research, I used no clip and got myself in the middle of the window, however I couldn't move in any direction, making me think this might not be possible, ill keep looking into it though.
The use of console commands is not allowed to be used in Scriptless, including "map" .
In Scripted runs, you are correct that most of what we allow is based what can be done in pubs, however you can actually still use the map command in valve servers, it just transfers you to your own custom server like normal.
Menu times are still counted since the speed it takes to go through them is determined by the skill of the player, and thus should be apart of the in game time.
I do appreciate your dedication to also include your demo and demo times in your submissions, but they are not necessary. Load time will be calculated by a moderator.
Update:
So some of the things mentioned here have been proven false, such as "In order to get the "completed" message over your different training missions (which is required for a valid run), you must complete the class's specific objectives" . After some messing around, you can actually complete all the training missions by doing the Engie exploit as long as you switch back to the original class you started with. So it doesn't matter which class's events you finish.
Most everything else I mention in this post is still true, however it is no longer viable in scripted runs since the Engie exploit saves so much time. There are some who feel like the category is no longer fun because of this. Even though that maybe true, as long as it's allowed, you should always use the fastest method possible in a 'speed run', whether it's fun or not.
After some review, using tf_ commands to kick bots violates the rules of not "change the settings of training". Even though the kick and add command aren't too harmful, there are other tf_and mp_ commands that could severely alter the settings of training mode, so we have concluded that your new methods are not to be used during scripted runs.
Great find MrVegetables ! I just checked and all those binds do not break script violations! :)
And I know you have concerns about timing issues in this category, I will discuss with another mod about it.
No use of: -Scripts -Binds -Console Commands -SV Cheats -Mods -Configs Are allowed in any way that would effect the default training maps.
Basically you can only use normal game play controls and a custom HUD if you want. This category is designed for raw skill and execution of the training maps as (mostly) intended.
Ah so basically, each combination of targets will only be picked once, with the exception of melee.
I'll link you to my WR record video for I will be using it a lot to show certain parts of what I say in this guide:
Since you can't change class during any of the training maps with comma, you have to use some sort of bind or script. What's nice about it, is that it does not require sv_cheats set to 1, which means you could also use this to switch classes fast in the spawn rooms of Valve pubs if you want, and it's legal for the run.
A simple method is to bind each of the number pad keys to the corresponding class to make it easy to remember. You can use these sets of binds to do so:
bind "KP_END" "join_class scout" bind "KP_DOWNARROW" "join_class soldier" bind "KP_PGDN" "join_class pyro" bind "KP_LEFTARROW" "join_class demoman" bind "KP_5" "join_class heavyweapons" bind "KP_RIGHTARROW" "join_class engineer" bind "KP_HOME" "join_class medic" bind "KP_UPARROW" "join_class sniper" bind "KP_PGUP" "join_class spy"
When you switch a class during training, there is often a 5 second or so wait before you spawn, in order to spawn instantly, switch to a class you don't want to use, then immediately switch to the one you want. At 2:15 of the video you can see me switch to Scout and then to Soldier to immediately spawn in time for the last enemy. I know there is a script you can use that will do this double class instant switch for you, but I don't know how to do it (if you do feel free to leave it in the comments of this forum).
Something you need to know about the maps is that there are two different maps used for training mode: ' tr_target ' and ' tr_dustbowl '. What's different about this Dustbowl map compared to a Dustbowl in pubs is that it's specifically configured to the proper training settings including the messages and bots, and completing it will result in a proper "Completed" message for Soldier. However, if you spawn into tr_target, you will automatically be placed in the Solider training. I found recently that the game checks to see what class you spawn as, and it will start the training accordingly. Spawning in tr_target will always spawn you as soldier, and thus make you do soldier training. But if you switch to either Demo, Engie, or Spy, tr_target will automatically start the corresponding training missions. However, if you switch to a class that does not have their own training mission like Scout or Sniper, the training mode will continue as the class you were before. I used this strategy a few times in my current PB.
A couple more things to note. In order to get the "completed" message over your different training missions (which is required for a valid run), ¤¤¤¤¤you must complete the class's specific objectives¤¤¤¤¤ (This is no longer true), AND also be that class when the victory screen pops up. For example, in 2:15 of the video, you see me switch back to soldier to kill the last enemy (which immediately triggers the victory screen). If I were to kill that last enemy as sniper, I would still get the victory screen + music, however it would not say "50% completed" over my soldier training button, and I would not be able to continue to Dustbowl.
Also, let's say I join Demo training, switch to Engineer and did the destroy four teleporters method to complete the training. Doing so will result in a victory screen, however you would only have the "Completed" message over engineer training and not Demo. Remember you have to also complete the class's specific objectives in order to technically complete that class's training. Demo does not at any point require you to destroy teleporters.
One more note. The Dustbowl map is the only one that does not require you to finish as the class you were intended for. If you notice at 6:47 of the video, even though I finished the training as Spy and not Soldier, it still gave me the "Completed" message for Soldier, so it's fine to win on any class for Dustbowl. [Weird things happen when you switch to Spy on Dustbowl. If you switch to any class everything is still normal, sometimes a bot or two is misplaced but that's it, but if you noticed when I switched to Spy at 6:04 in the video, I get weird text boxes such as "TR_DustSpy_SneakTitle" and such. Also a lot more bots spawn than they normally do. I feel like at some point Valve wanted to implement a Spy type training map for Dustbowl, but never got around to finish it and left some parts in the code. This isn't too relevant for the speedrun but it's interesting enough to keep looking into I think.]
FINALLY, CHANGES TO THE SPEEDRUN:
(Note that these are the first new strats I found. I feel like there could be many other ways of switching classes and optimizations/tricks that could be found to improve the run. If you find anything or have suggestions for improvement feel free to leave that in the comments!)
On Soldier training, switch to Sniper after you kill all the targets in order to kill the enemy bots faster. You can see me do that at 1:23 in the video. Remember to keep track of all the enemies you killed for that you have to kill the very last one as Soldier again. Even though this saves less than a second, it's much more consistent to kill the enemies as Sniper than as Soldier. Sometimes I have a few enemies left on screen that cost me extra seconds to kill. With Sniper you are always guaranteed to have only one enemy left to kill at the end.
On Dustbowl, you do the first two maps as Soldier still. The first one I believe Soldier is still the fastest way to complete. On the second map, I feel like it's possible that a Demo that can sticky jump and air-pogo well can complete it faster. However I am not good enough at Demo to see if it actually is. Sometime in the future I will try him out and test times, but it would only save a couple seconds max. For now there are much faster time saves I can work on, so if someone doesn't want to wait and want to try it as Demo, be my guest and be sure to share your results! On the third point, I found that switching to Spy is about 10 seconds faster than my best Soldier run, so I would definitely recommend going Spy. Plus it's more consistent, all you have to do is make sure you disguise and sap the sentry. Make sure to undisguise with the knife (faster than shooting) and cap. Do not kill the sentry faster, let it die to the sapper, because as soon as the sentry dies, the Engie on last will begin to rebuild the sentry, and the later it dies the more likely you are to cap last without him building it. If it looks like he is about to build it, you can either stab the Engie (like what I do at 6:38 in the video) or cap while killing the sentry with your revolver. For me at least the bots never seem to shoot you when you are Spy, which is very convenient, but sometimes they do (I don't know why though yet).
On Demo training, you can save a couple seconds by switching to Scout immediately (wait for the first text box to appear first) and shooting all the targets with your scattergun instead of grenade launcher since it's hit scan as apposed to projectile. Switch back to Demo as soon as you kill the target in the far back with the scattergun. Finish the demo training as normal with the stickies. You can watch the Demo run at 7:04 in the video
Switching classes on Spy saves the most time in the run. When you spawn as Spy, make sure you wait for the first text box to appear before switching to Demo as you did similarly in the last training map, otherwise you could end up in 'limbo'. You can watch and see where I stand, where I point my crosshair, and how much to charge in order to get 3 stickies right next to the sentry. Feel free though to find the method that works for you, it might be possible to kill it with just two stickies if you can find the proper spot. Remember what I warned before though. Since you are spawning as Demo it will start the Demo training, this is alright though since it will not interfere with doing the Spy objectives. After you kill the sentry, place 5 stickies at a specific spot to kill the 3 enemies as soon as they spawn. Remember to switch to Spy right after this for the victory screen appears in only a few seconds after they die. The whole Demo training can be seen starting at 8:14 in the video.
Run ends after you complete Engie, which is unchanged in the run. If you have questions about anything I did, or again have suggestions for things you think could improve in the run, feel free to post them in the comments. Make sure to restart your game after you complete a run for I have had bots despawn in some of the training maps which caused me to not being able to complete them (this is due having multiple training maps active at the same time, such as what happens when you switch to Demo during Spy training).
And good luck to your future runs and I hope this post explained everything for you well :) .
