I'm very much backing up what Draz is saying here. If we're doing a bad job, tell us. We can't address problems if we don't even know they're problems. If they're being brought up to one person and they're not sharing it with the other mods, that's not the whole team's fault, that's that one mod's fault. So please, let the team know if you have any concerns or ideas.

@KBM, we are responding publicly as well as in private. The thing is some of these issues aren't as simple as "yeah that's my fault." I could literally paste my entire comment word for word from the mod discord if you'd like, but ultimately there's a lot of discussion amongst us as well because moderation isn't as simple as "Cool, submitted video? I'm verifying it" and a lot of us have personal lives which make it hard to be constantly present. At the moment, only six mods have actually gone point through point addressing each thing raised by Desa as Crispy did above. But we're trying to communicate while also not leaving you guys with a whole lot of no-context information on what's been discussed in the past. Also, a lot of the discussion happens in the discord, not the forums - whether that's for better or for worse is up to the individual, as, for instance, I spend more time on discord, but Crispy spends more time on the forums.

One thing I might add as a suggestion is to make a "speedrunning-general" chat, for situations where there might be a discussion between two games. Otherwise I really like the overall changes to the discord.

I don't think it would be a good idea to require tutorial, but I like the other ideas. I don't think the current runs on the boards should be removed, so it would make sense, as Sonic suggested, to make All Stories NG and All Stories NG+, and I do like the idea of requiring the collection of all Xehanort reports during the run, since that isn't particularly difficult and has been something I've always wondered why it isn't required (pardon the awkward wording).

However, I would support requiring tutorial, since the idea of "opening the box and starting a run fresh on the PS3/4" makes sense - although there are a lot of categories that one can't do that on - Riku's story in CoM/Re:CoM comes to mind. Since the tutorial is only required once per profile, it doesn't seem that hard to have the setup for tutorial being done, or, as is required for Any% runs, start the timer for the beginning of the run on Character Select, at which point, completing the tutorial or not completing the tutorial is a moot point, since the same character select screen loads either way.

I also definitely think secret episode should be handled as it currently is - only Crit runs require RoD, and that would jive with the idea of starting a run as soon as you open the box, as Faye was talking about.

Ninten, I think what Punchy's saying is that you can't count non-voices for either side. It's like trying to count the votes of people who refuse to vote. Also, some of the "hypothetical people" are real, and I'be heard them say that they're worried they'll write something that could be unintentionally offensive or just don't want to get on people's bad side, despite having an opinion on the matter. When I'm not on mobile, I'd be glad to screenshot and censor their names and PM images to you if you'd like evidence of this.

As Punchy has brought up, it's a bit frustrating that any dissent is either being ignored by the mods or claimed to be false proof or not enough proof - a mod accused Punchy of being a liar about that run, the requirements of proof are being pushed farther and farther away every time we provide evidence, and many, many arguments are just simply falling on seemingly deaf ears. It would honestly be nice to get some kind of notice of "Hey, you've raised some points and the mod team is currently discussing them and deciding what complaints are important" or something. I don't want to start having to individually PM'ing mods or tweeting at them to get response. Although apparently the only way to get a real response is to tweet "Scuffed Mods", and rather than providing productive discussion, it just starts fights. I (and I'm sure a few others of us) would also welcome a group chat on discord if you don't want to have a massive forum discussion - just include everyone who has raised any point and make it something where anyone else who has something to say can be added.

But it truly concerns me, as a "citizen" of this community, to see that the mods seem to have no interest in doing anything regarding this discussion. It also concerns me that I have heard multiple people (who will remain unnamed) say things like "I won't post in the forum because I just got on the good side of all the mods, and I don't want to get on their bad side again". That immediately reflects poorly on the community, that we all have to be on the mods' good side, and it also makes me wonder less and less why other communities think of our community as "the worst community in speedrunning". And these points don't even bring into account the fact that I have had issues trying to even suggest something to moderators through PMs after explicitly being told "Hey, if you have a suggestion, PM a moderator." I have evidence of such a situation that I can provide if requested, although I'd prefer not to name names.

Edit: As an addendum, I've heard multiple people say "The mods are handling this like it's an attack on their character. It wasn't that in the first place, but the longer they wait to answer, the more I'm questioning their behavior."

I'm really confused as to why nobody has graced my post with any real response. I feel (and it seems others agree) that I asked valid questions. I'm not going to retell the same story or ask the same questions if they're going to be ignored, since apparently all of my points are invalidated by my one point having the (admittedly true earlier) assumption that timer makes mods lives easier. I never stated that was the only purpose. I stated that was the apparent purpose as was being explained to my understanding. Regardless of that, the points stand. Am I just being ignored because I'm not "relevant"? Or because I'm calling out some of the problems present in the group of mods, in which the data supports that some mods do literally nothing to verify or check runs - basically their job? Neither of those invalidate my point, and your carelessness toward my points and those of others kind of reflects poorly on the whole community.

I'm gonna throw in my (probably more than) 2 cents here.

So first off, I really don't get the hostility toward Punchy for having an opinion on this issue or any issue - as he mentioned, he tried to learn Ven Crit and had problems learning because 30 minutes of the WR run was missing (how is that legit? I trust sonic, for sure, but when 30 minutes are missing, literally ANYTHING could happen, and we're just taking a runner's word) - I saw multiple uses of the term "fuck right off" and its variants, coming from people who behave like they're close to moderators of the community or are moderators. Of course, the runner in question deleted his posts now so I can't screenshot them, but Punchy quoted him in his post.

That being aside (and honestly being another issue - no matter where the forum of discussion, if someone dares challenge the power structure of the community, DRAMA), I definitely see both sides of the issue on this. I think timers SHOULD be used, but not required - Rebel raised the very fair point of streaming from PS4, for example, and I've seen people raise the issue of internet issues, and these points come from people on alternate sides of issues. So - you're concerned about people having issues with streaming from their internet, but if they're PS4 runners, you basically want them to stream twice? Because in the case of Sonic, and probably a handful of other runners or potential runners, capture cards are an issue (or their interaction with their computers), so they can't stream their run in real time with a timer, and have to restream it with a timer - this seems a little unfair to people in the situation of bad internet AND no capture card, since internet data caps DO exist, and going beyond those caps is ridiculously expensive (again, another issue, here unrelated to KH).

Since mods already check the length of the run and will go in and verify that the timer stops at the right moment, aren't they already basically doing the work of the timer - they check to make sure the timer starts where it should and stops where it should. They adjust times for BBS runners who start the run on the title screen. It's not too hard to look at the video timestamp for the beginning and for the end and say "oh, this run took 2 hours, 17 minutes, and 35 seconds" or something. Sure, it might be a little more work, but as Punchy raised already - we don't have that many mods who are actively verifying runs. It wouldn't be too hard to do what Rebel suggested and have mods on teams doing things. Sure, it's not your job (in the sense that you're not being paid to moderate), but if you've volunteered to be a mod (since nobody is forced to moderate), you should be willing to offer your time in contribution to the leaderboard moderation team beyond making a few smart forum posts now and then. Hobz raised the point of some mods having jobs and wanting time to do runs as well - if they're too busy to moderate, then why are they a mod in the first place? Legacy? That seems really unfair when I've heard several people say "I'd be glad to help the mod team", myself included, who would be willing to do the work, but we've got mods who won't do the work because they just want to do runs - especially when I heard from BTrue that the job of reviewing runs REALLY isn't that taxing - he said that while he was mod, the job was basically to check that the run started and stopped in the right place and check a few random spots to make sure nothing sketchy was going on. That sounds like it's at most a 5 minute process. Sure, the timer makes it a bit more streamlined, but it still seems like the mods do the job of the timer at the same time.

Sorry that went off on a bit of a tangent, partly because I only have the time to make one forum post in response to two or three issues, but it really seems inane to argue that the timer is a requirement, especially when many many other communities have gotten by without that rule. Someone argued that those communities don't have 3+ hour runs to verify - that's true, but irrelevant if the system BTrue described to me is actually the case for what most mods do (and that would make sense considering that Ninten and Sonic have verified most of the runs I've seen submitted, and there's just not enough time in a day to watch that many runs between only two people). Do I think the timer should be recommended? Yes. Should it, perhaps, be required on emulator runs for games where emulator is allowed? Definitely. But should people be rejected simply because the mods don't want to check a run that doesn't have a timer and don't want to do the math on those runs? No. That's just laziness on the side of the mods.

That's my take on the discussions that have been going on. Despite being blunt in my writing here, believe me that I don't have any ill will toward any of the mods, especially not on a personal level. It feels ridiculous that I have to say this, but I really do appreciate the work you guys have done for the community. But I can also see where things can improve - sure, we get by with our rules, but why not make the community and the rules better? Perhaps that's why you've seen me so vocal on twitter and the forum posts in the past. It's just a tad disheartening to see mods and bigger names throw aside anyone who raises dissent because "you're passive-aggressively starting drama". Most of the time, if you take the time to consider suggestions that are made, even on more public forums, things could actually improve.

Emulators are allowed (I personally run on Emulator, even though I have yet to submit a recent PB for Sora's Story). I'm not quite sure when timing stops for Riku's story - I'd personally guess it's on the last hit of final Ansem, but I'd recommend watching another person's PB and seeing when they stop the timer to figure that out.

Edit: After watching the end of Cyber's record, it looks like timer stops on last hit.

My personal opinion is to make it something in the console category. Like how BBSFMHD distinguishes Original, Slim, and Super Slim PS3s. Installing an SSD is something Sony supports with the PS4, so it makes sense that it would be allowed, but to keep competition up, make it a separate selection thing.

All this, of course, assuming SSD is faster by an insurmountable amount.

Since RoD hasn't had much competition, I personally think it doesn't make sense to make two separate categories.

I think the rule change would be beneficial because it would remove one load time - even up to the character select screen on my own PS3 I've seen 3-4 seconds of variation, just due to changes in loads, and my PS3 tends to have optimal loads. Removing the effects of loads would probably be a good thing as much as possible.

That being said, I also understand the side in support of keeping things the way they are - the current timing method has worked, so it's not a huge material difference. I just think to keep (especially) races and runs comparable, reducing the effects of loads would probably be good.

I think it makes sense to allow SSDs, at least at first glance, especially since it's possible to install without modifications. The important part, however, would be to sort runs by HDD vs SSD. If there's a huge difference, then it seems like it would be unfair for HDD runners to compete with SSD runners and lose only because of load times. I know PC runs remove loads (which is obviously a lot easier with PC than with console) to make sure that the truly better run is recognized as such, but until 2.8 and 3 come out, it'll be hard to say for sure.

Congrats to Nanner, who just claimed my bounty. Money sent.

Blue, I highly recommend you read legal precedent on this before just blindly citing Nintendo. Nintendo obviously doesn't want emulation to be legal - why would they? At the very least, it's a loss of business on their end. However, according to the case of Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v Nintendo of America, Inc., emulation is entirely legal in the US assuming you have a physical copy of the game. (Source: http://www.leagle.com/decision/19912063780FSupp1283_11881/LEWIS%20GALOOB%20TOYS,%20INC.%20v.%20NINTENDO%20OF%20AMERICA,%20INC. )

Thus, emulation clearly isn't illegal. I've played emulated versions of games that I own. I've speedrun on emulated versions of games that I own. It's technically illegal, but hard to enforce, when you don't already own a copy of the game. But again, that's very hard to enforce. And that's not our responsibility as a speedrunning community to enforce the law on this, especially when it's something we can't verify.

The way I see it, if the community accepts emulated runs, then it's completely okay. I own or have owned but since lost a copy of every game I've run. But that's just me. But if generic new runner "xX_KingdomHeartsLove_Xx" wants to pick up a category of a DS or GBA game and they don't own it, especially given the current rarity of CoM and the ridiculous price of DS/3DS capture cards, it's completely okay for them to run on emulators. Emulator runs are the reason I'm considering doing runs of CoM, RC, and Days at some point in the future. I definitely can't afford to stream DS games at the moment.

Edit: Blue. Read the whole thing. Commas interrupting a statement: "It's technically illegal when you don't already own the game." interrupted with "but hard to enforce." It's not piracy, nor illegal in any other circumstance. Heck, it's not even piracy unless you don't own the game in question.

$10 to the next person who gets sub 1:16 in Aqua Beginner

From having formerly run it (and planning to run it again), you have two options:

1. Collect the reports during the run, which is allowed, but might (?) be slower. The reason I say might is that doing this also allows you to remove some cutscenes from the runs, which may make it break even.

OR

2. Collect the reports before the run, have the saves made in advance, and create the final episode save after beating the Aqua run. This may (again (?)) be faster since you skip going to Mirage Arena as Terra and doing the other reports from unnecessary chests during the other stories, but you have extra cutscenes to deal with.

There's no problem with doing either way, and I'm not sure which is faster since neither has been fully tested, but at the moment those are the two options.

Good luck with the runs, and if you have any questions about BBS, like Nanner, I'm an active runner (currently on break due to school) and I've got a pretty good base of knowledge on the Beginner categories, especially Aqua, so feel free to ask!