Good lord, someone made an incredible rap song about skate or die 2 15 years ago. I hope it never goes away. Thanks to @SeanAnomaly for the find, I'm probably 5% of it's total views alone lmao

meh, if something materializes you know where to find me and I'll be down haha

Yeah, the RNG obv affects item drops, and limiting item usage could help, but now that it confirms to affect routing of AI cars, I think savestates are just aren't for us. Players just being able to predict which corners to pass inside/outside on without fear of collision because the path is already solved via savestate isn't really a good direction for keeping a level playing field between console and emulator IMO

Thanks for filling us in Jak, I can add you back if you think some changes might inspire some more runners.

I just think that unless we're providing the exact save states we want people to use, the manipulation leading up to actual run needs to be documented. Otherwise, we're just rewarding the people who grinded the game for the perfect RNG, which is fine, that's the case in a lot of titles. But when that incredible luck is showcased, it's always including the entirety of the game run so that everyone can see roughly how that luck was generated. Off-Road doesn't have a Time Trial mode like many other racing titles, so we're left to do this during a normal race campaign, where we have tons of opportunities to impact the RNG of the race we plan to submit as an IL. In my opinion, those actions leading into that level are likely very significant and thus should be documented in the submission for others to see.

The only other option is everyone getting the exact same savestate to use, which attaches other complications and requirements.

Which then leads to... how in the world can we even have IL submissions? Are we expecting runners to submit their entire run of the game up to that IL attempt to show it wasn't savestated? There's no other way to be sure it isn't based off a save state. If this game saw enough runners, wouldn't it just devolve into who's savestate had the perfect RNG setup for enemy cars to be encountered at the perfect places/times, and less so about the driving skill? In that case, the video of the run itself is trivial, all that is doing is showcasing the lucky AI movements, it's not showcasing the run itself that got the player into that position to have that blessed RNG run.

Do we have a more elegant solution for this? There are zero runs submitted as of now, so getting this right from the beginning is way more friendly than trying to change the rules on people after runs populate the board. I'm open to any and all ideas, including cutting ILs out entirely for cleanliness sake.

Besides requiring to start from power on or reset, I request having to finish in first for an individual level. Would look bad to see grey car turbo ahead but still be a record. This won't be much upkeep unless a big Tuber makes a speedrun history video.

That's interesting, that would be a pretty cool category extension. You mean just the final race of the run? Or all of the races? I think the latter is generally pretty damn difficult and probably a lot of luck tied to it. It may just lead to the digging of glitches with the lapcounter which would be counterintuitive to the category in the first place haha.

I am in absolute complete agreement on the Save State issue. It was my whole problem with the IL idea in the first place (that and the lack of interest), and in the 3 months since they were made moderator, it never materialized into anything. We can revisit one day if the demand is there for IL, but for now, with not enough interest, and no real practical way for players to put in reps in a timely manner without tainting the RNG with a save state, it's currently off the table. Obviously we'd all be operating with perfect nitros/upgrades already for an attempt, but memorization and optimization of enemy car movements based on particular save states you have vs a competitor is just a can of worms I don't think anyone wants to deal with.

JakVeneno is no longer a moderator of this game. We thank them for creating the framework of the categories and development to the leaderboard, but it has seen zero submissions so far without any reason to expect many on the horizon.

Aight, sounds good. If you're willing to put in the work. If you end up ghosting us, let it be said right now that the sub categories may not be permanent if it requires too much upkeep lol

That's how it sounds on USA/NTSC consoles with original hardware

Just to make sure we're on the same page here, since nearly all of the default rules on this website don't allow for save states, every single attempt would require roughly 10-15 minutes of prep just to get the truck up to maximum spec for optimal time trial times.

My issue with it is twofold:

1. It would take quite the undertaking of the admins to put all of these boards up, and constantly approve runs/PBs on each level. Would we then need to do this on all the other games? Would we need it for clockwise/counter clockwise?

2. Would this just be a stupid waste because all the individual level records will just be held by people who sandbag their run to have max upgrades and nitros and just go all out on that one particular track? So the fastest fandango time would just be someone who saved all their nitros up and waited to use them all on this one particular track at that moment for an IL?

Because of point 2, I'm hesitant to consider the amount of work laid out in point 1, but am open to discussion if there's interest besides a single person or two.

BACK FROM THE DEAD! Welcome back Flux!

Awesome that this game made the marathon. Great run and commentary guys!

Well done!

Great run as always!

sample run of what i'm talking about

Each level in this game has Krusty collectibles, and if you find them all, you unlock Soundstage 3 in Hollywood. You can't unlock it otherwise, and when you beat Eric Von Burns afterwards, you get a scene during the Krusty show where Bart gets to throw pies at Burns and Smithers. Could we make this a category?

Maybe category rules like "Timing is the same as any%, but all collectibles must be collected, Soundstage 3 must be completed, and ending should include Burns and Smithers pie scene (although not included in the timing)

Thoughts?