Hello, i was planning to start running tjis as my next project, but just want to understand why the new category "No oob" was created for a run that already has Glitchess?? Seems Any% should just be any%, glitchess and all, no? Or Any% and just Glitchless.

Maybe its just me, doesnt seem to make sense though. Kind Regards,

Deadguy

Several years back, the Any% category was introduced to a glitch called the Glasses Glitch that saved ~60 seconds over the WR prior to that glitch being discovered, so Any% wasn't glitchless at that point. The warp that I did could be called a glitch or out of bounds or many other things. I guess the question is does there need to be Any% Glitchless vs. Any% Glitched or do you differentiate glitches and say Any% and Any% No Major Glitches? What we have now is Any% where anything is allowed vs. No OoB where everything is allowed except the kind of thing I did. There's a lot of ways to do this, not sure what's the right way, but there's definitely been a new divide.

I think the reason for the different categories is how much the given category requirements change the route and feel of the run. I'm not trying to speak for Dragondarch, but I'm guessing at their logic...

The new any% is quite a different run due to the precision and difficulty of the big OOB trick that saves a ton of time. It's conceivable that someone (who loves the core gameplay of Goonies II) might be turned off by the OOB trick because of it's high execution requirement later in the run. If it wasn't in its own category, fewer runners might be attracted to the run. If I were a new runner, having to complete the OOB glitch to have a competitive time would be a turn-off.

Having said that, there are already few runners of the game so maybe the previous point isn't so important. Further, maybe popularity/accessibility of the speedrun isn't something we SHOULD take in to account for category creation as it might compromise the essence of what speedrunning is all about. I don't necessarily agree with ignoring popularity, accessibility and fun, but it's worth considering. Also, splitting out the category does somewhat diminish the accomplishments of the runners who do complete the OOB trick as they are no longer running on the 'main' board.

In the end, I don't know what the right answer is and I can see both sides of the argument. I'm glad I'm not making the decisions :P

I see your point Crit for sure, but i think to make a new category based on accessibility or dificulty completely diminishes the run. Thats my personal opinion. As i said, i plan this as my new speedrun and the new trick wont deter me at all

I think the category split is fair. First of all I agree with all points made above, there may be new runners who are not looking forward to changing the route by breaking the game and I respect that. Besides that, showing No OoB runs on the same leaderboard as Any% runs that do make use of 'warping level geometry' might undervalue the No OoB runs, a 15:30 No OoB and a 13:30 OoB are both very impressive runs to me! It would be nice to have all previous runs on both leaderboards, but I suspect this is impossible. So I think the best we can do is see whether the current Any% leaderboard fills up with more runs, and then perhaps change which category is seen as the 'main' board.

In the end, I think any new run is much appreciated, whether it's OoB or not! Best of luck with your runs Deadguy :)

hello. i know i'm not a member of this game's community, so my opinion shouldn't hold much weight. but i've been following this discussion and wanted to add my 2 cents.

i believe there's a difference between runs that pre-date new tech and runs that deliberately choose to not use that tech. the any% runs of the past were any% when submitted and should remain as such. "No OoB" and/or "Glitchless" categories are fine in general, but any% shouldn't be gutted of it's entire history.

What categories you have and how they're regulated are of course up to your community, but just for the sake of showing a way things could be done: In jaws, there's a death exploit that started getting used for WR runs a couple of years ago. Eventually I added a Deathless category, which was the traditional way of running the game. I copied over the legacy WRs that fit the category's rules but kept them in any% also. In the forum post announcing the new category I told all other runners that they had the choice to move their eligible runs, leave them in any%, or make a duplicate submission.

I agree with that option, for wxample, my CV2 Glitchless run is in glitchless and any%, both valid. Runs evolve though, so depending on new tech found, how many catefories will need to be created??

As a compromise, would it be possible for all of the runs to be Any% and then we can select OoB (Yes/No) when submitting. There would then be a column indicating OoB Yes/No on those runs. You can easily filter based on if OoB is included or not in the run. Then everyone is on the same board but there's a distinction in the type of run. I believe Batman (NES) does this with the Joker Glitch (https://www.speedrun.com/batman_the_video_game_nes).

I wouldn't be opposed to what professor has suggested. However, I probably wouldn't run for a faster OOB time in this case. I'm really happy with the execution on my current Any% run and I wouldn't want to replace that with a more poorly executed run (most likely given the difficulty of the oob trick). I understand that this is a selfish motivation so I will completely understand if merging the boards is the consensus.

variables can be set to not obsolete eachother. so your fastest OoB and fastest No OoB runs would both be displayed. we do this on family feud for emu/original cartridge/flashcart.

the fastest of the runs would have a number placement on the board. the slower run would be listed but have a "-" in the rank column.

for example if that change were made now. ProfessorRetro's OoB run would be in 1st place and his No OoB run would be 5th on the list, but Ischbinder would still have "5th" place.

@Dragondarch @beco or @Awery could we get a response from yourselves on this? I see the new 100% has also been split now too. Would love to see a mods response if possible.

I currently don't have the time to make a detailed post about my thought process right this moment - currently in the middle of a long work week - but I'll make one once I've hit my days off next week.