Can this be cleared up -

Is Jizzy skip allowed & if so why?

Is EOTL1 skip allowed and if not why?

I don't see how EOTL1 is a mission, seems like a checkpoint to me.

Also I see Tirean was doing runs with GT skip, so was it allowed and someone randomly just decided to disallow it and to throw it into misc? I don't see any trace of a discussion.

Jizzy skip is allowed, it shows the "mission passed" for it at the end (I don't actaully know if that's a good reasoning, but sounds good enough), almost like an instapass in VC or III, almost.

EOTL1 skip is not allowed, it counts as a mission thus needs to be passed. Ask a code monkey for details I guess

Runs with GT skip were moved to meme boards.

I was asking myself the same question about EOTL1 skip yesterday and came across these threads - https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/26xh3 and https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/ojzq3 So there was a discussion

https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/1nl51

Great thread & great vote, bunch of people voting who still have not even done a run of all missions to this day.

Where is the runs of all you people in that thread? Talk is talk.

These forums have a "minding your own business" issue

Typical Jolzi doing dumb shit and locking thread that was open for about 1 day, I have a better question - why is this brainless moron still mod? Shhh guys, let's pretend he's not abusing his power, no one cares and no one will notice.

What will get deleted from the SA boards at next ESA? find out in July!

People that never ran "All Missions" before wanted the category because they couldn't run it - or whatever variation they make up - w/out a leaderboard so it's fairly appropriate that people that don't run the category would vote.

From the thread. "On the other hand, 0318: set_latest_mission_passed 'RIOT_4' // End Of The Line only happens in FINALEC"

"VC All Missions is defined as triggering all 0318 opcodes (set_latest_mission_passed 'RIOT_4' // End Of The Line)."

Also without the code, I think it's fair to say EOTL can be seen as one big mission with 3 checkpoints, similar to Trip Skip.

That is my arguement to have another vote to decide whether we should allow GT skip or not because it can interpreted both ways whether it's a mission or not.

Also another arguement was how there was not a proper vote last time to ban in the first place, because a mod (Jolzi) abused his powers and locked the thread within a day.

My suggestion - make a thread and post "Like this if you want GT skip allowed" make another post "Like this if you want GT skip banned" & maybe lock the thread, or not.

Will the mods make it? Seems like KZ_FREW is the only sensible person here seeing as hoxi just liked a shitpost instead of removing it from someone who has nothing better to do than spread cancer all day.

All banking on one person now, maybe we'll get lucky. BlessRNG

I agree with reset on this issue.

If it’s not so much to ask to have a proper vote on this matter with definitions on both sides to keep GT skip ban and to allow GT skip. And encourage people to vote who are running the category and real potential runners to also vote on this matter. I think having the vote open for a week is fair for everyone to let their voice be heard and also comment why they believe in why the vote should be A or B.

A common theme that seems to happen is people who don’t run this game or people who are only interested in one of the GTA series but not the other vote on matters that don’t affect them but in turn affect other runners who enjoy running a category.

Also comments that are just there to shit talk doesn’t have any relationship to the thread at hand. A prime example of this can be found here on this thread and others and it’s outright juvenile at best. This is not a new issue by any means and we all have played a part in this behavior. Change can happen, things can and should be better.

If and when a proper vote on this happens I will gladly take part in it.

I'm fine with such a vote being made in that format. I'll bring it up with others.

As for "seeing as hoxi just liked a shitpost instead of removing it from someone who has nothing better to do than spread cancer all day.", me liking it was a bad move, I admit, but I can't remove it because only super mods can remove posts. Why? I have no clue.

It seems like enough time has passed and there has been no objections to a vote.

Also, what will happen to Jolzi abusing his mod power?

Can I also get a forum ban request for English_Ben, tired of this person following me around and harrassing me.

The next time you all wonder why darkviper made a GTA V discord which is locked for non-runners, maybe you should consider that like the same 5 clowns troll & harass these GTA forums & discord & everybody and mods don't seem to do anything about it.

How many times can one person shit-post? Of course, mods decide to not do anything to maintain personal relationships healthy with these cancerboxes.

There's a thread about that sort of thing under "The Site" I think, otherwise Frew's discretion I suppose. Also, forum bans don't exist. I was deleting shitposts but I'm not really suited to mod the actual leaderboard as was proven. For the same reason I don't want to be the one making the vote forum thread. There's the whole issue with non-runners voting so I guess you can just make it and exclude the votes of people deemed by actual runners to not have their votes count and then see what the result is.

Alright, so I was on Reset's stream when he was discussing this issue and I thought about this for a while (even though I don't actively run, or even planning on running this game) and I may be jumping onto the wagon a little bit too late and I know you probably won't care about what I have to say, but I'll express my opinion on this matter anyway, because I was just feeling like it:

So, as we know, EOTL is a mission which is essentially built up of three different missions because R* did not implement a real checkpoint system which I believe and hope they have done in HD games later on. According to the code, which some of the threads were discussing and showing, EOTL is 3 missions. But according to the "Missions Completed" (or whatever it's called) stat, EOTL is 1 mission, so all you need to do is complete the final part of EOTL to increment that stat.

So far, I can see that the rules are based off the code of the game, but my question is: if we're really gonna base things off the code, why doesn't All Missions require you to do races, offroad missions, trucking and so on- at the engine level, they are missions too since they put you OnMission = 1 once you start them, right?

I personally would say just base the rules of the stat, like in GTA 3, where in fact, you have to show that stat in the video once you're done with the run. And as long as you get that increment on the "Missions Completed" stat from EOTL, it shouldn't matter whether you skipped the 1st part or not. And if you can show in the video that stat, I would say you're fine.

As I said, this may be a late response but I said what I wanted to say. Have a good day, everyone :)

[quote] I personally would say just base the rules of the stat, like in GTA 3, where in fact, you have to show that stat in the video once you're done with the run. [/quote]

@terasss2 No idea where you got this from, this isn't a rule in GTA3 at all lol

also something that puts you om1 =/= a mission. If you were gonna follow this "engine level" principle you would have to do the pool minigame and the videogames in CJ's house lmao.

Anyway

Only the final part of EOTL calls upon 0318 (REGISTER_MISSION_PASSED)

The issue with SA AM right now is there is no proper guideline as to what a mission is. If you go the 0318 route like VC+III then you must include races/bmx/nrg as they all call 0318. If you don't want to do this, then it shouldn't be called "All Missions". All story missions was alright, why was it changed?

Either way, a decision needs to be made.

If you're going the 0318 route, GT skip is fine. If you're going $RIOT_TOTAL_PASSED_MISSIONS route, it isn't.

@English_Ben I saw Chivu and Kamiks show that stat in their All Missions PBs and the rule does say "Timing starts when the loading bar on the flash screen disappears and ends when you complete all missions that count towards the mission counter according to the stats.". This may not directly imply that you need to show the stat, but I think it would make sense if you had to because you could miss a mission for whatever reason (I missed a rampage in a VC All Rampages run once- and I know it's a different category and a game, but there is a stat for Rampages Completed. And I am sure shit like that can happen.) This could also be a safety measure for the runner too ;) and may help with moderation, because be honest- do you mods watch the runs in full? Just a friendly question, no hate.

And yeah, I am aware that this was called All Story Missions which I agree, it was a better name and if you wanted to do bmx, chilliad, trucking, etc. you may as well just do 100% and you don't want a shorter version of 100% as a category. But then again, isn't AM supposed to be an intermediate category to practice 100%? Anyway, that's another topic for another day.

And yeah, WE need to decide on this. Like Reset said, there should be a public poll where people could vote on the fate of All Missions (maybe not everyone, but all people who have done a run of the game or are active runners) and not just a closed discussion between the mods, who haven't even submitted an All Missions run to begin with.

EDIT Also, @English_Ben, you did say that opcode 0318 is called when you complete the mission (story or offroad). And you said "If you go the 0318 route like VC+III then you must include races/bmx/nrg as they all call 0318", but I have a question: why do you do offroad missions in 3 but not in VC?

Mhmd_FVC basically just told me to find workarounds to what mods are supposed to do.

"There's a thread about that sort of thing under "The Site" I think, otherwise Frew's discretion I suppose"

What are you talking about? You want me to report Jolzi? If it doesn't work we all just have to pray he doesn't do stupid shit again because the mods on this leaderboard are fine with keeping him as mod?

Why is someone who hasn't been relevant to SA speedrunning in like years & years still allowed to be saying or doing anything?

Now because of him, I have to waste my time typing out all this, I don't know what Tirean felt when it got CEd for that reason, but knowing some fuckhead who has no business saying anything and doing things no one asked to do is frustrating, do you not agree? It's wasting everyones time. All i've seen from this person is just causing shit and being involved in things he has no business being involved in, like this situation here. So give me and everyone here a good reason he is mod besides "everlasting friendships". I don't care what he's doing for 3 or VC or what he did in the Iraq war, it's not a reason to just continously say and do stupid shit in these boards, I'll wait. Same with Gael,although he isn't running his mouth when he doesn't know what he's talking about.

"For the same reason I don't want to be the one making the vote forum thread."

So you want me, a non-mod making a vote thread. You honestly think that's a good idea? How did the previous ones turn out? Some were taken seriously, some weren't. So, we all just have to pray again? As I said, make a thread, like this post if A, like this post if B. Lock after a week.

Why is that so hard to do? Curious. It can be filtered out later by people with common sense. You can make the filter "had a run in the past year" or had an AM run in the past. I'm sure everyone here knows who's around SA speedrunning and who's here for the bullshit.

I suggested you post in the thread about abusive/incapable/inactive mods because I'm not a mod (nor a super mod to be able to remove Jolzi for that matter) and since you seem so willing to change things then I figured that you may as well make an attempt to actually do something instead of smashing your keyboard on the forums every few months and calling everyone stupid as if it'll actually do anything (it won't). But your points still stand, despite the manner in which they were presented.

Seeing as the only reason he's still a mod is because of the old system where series mods got game mod by default and nobody bothered to remove him, then yes, I would agree that he is up for removal. I'm sure the mods of this game and other runners among you would agree with that. See what I can do about that. Possibly same with Gael. I imagine it's also distasteful to see me even listed among the mods but I can't really do anything but accept/reject runs now which I kinda feel obligated to do after the whole thing. It's not really as exciting as it sounds.

I don't really see the issue with you posting the thread yourself, but if you really want one of the cliquey moronic mods to do it, then that'll be done instead. It indeed is not so hard to do, but the same applies to you, it's not hard to do. You could've just made the thread yourself. But since it's gotten to this, may as well have hoxi/frew make it. Common sense filter and one week before locking sounds reasonable enough to me.

I've told you why it's a bad idea for a non-mod to do it, you obviously ignored. Do you want to scroll up?

When you stop being babies that need to be baby sitted by me, maybe you'll be respected more. It's great how I have to type out paragraphs about why common sense is common sense, a lot of other people can see this too. Respect goes both ways, when you go around the place running your mouthes, locking threads for no reason, changing rules because you feel like it, deleting Ieaderboards because of fake confidence boosts from IRL events, don't expect me or anyone else to be nice to you.

Good luck!

'least you got that out of your system. Now hopefully conversations going forward can actually be more constructive. If one of the mods doesn't make it by like 12h from now then I guess I'll do it anyway.

I explained my points, I think that's the definition of "constructive", not sure, you should check. You came in saying things out of anger, not even thinking about what you're saying and slapping up a random paragraph. But don't worry, nothing will happen. Speedrun.com GTA section is one big unseperatable family, where the same person who shitposts will get his shitposts deleted until the end of time instead of being reported to a full mod & site banned.

Curious what you think me reporting Jolzi would do, do you not think the Full Mod would just talk to the current mods of the leaderboard ultimately?

I wonder if anything was even said to Jolzi about what he did. Spoiler for everybody who doesn't know these forums: No.

[quote]but I have a question: why do you do offroad missions in 3 but not in VC?[/quote] in answer to this question: GTA III AM is clearly and unambiguously defined in the stat menu: https://imgur.com/a/aN8spr4 Unfortunately VC doesn't have this stat so we can't use that for the definition. However in GTA 3 all 73 missions that contribute to the counter (which includes off road missions) also change the filename, so the definition of VC became "anything that changes the filename" - and this doesn't include off road missions. AM SA has always been a bit controversial. People didn't want to apply the 3/VC definition because it made it to similar to 100% - Other proposed definitions would include things like arcade games. Check out this thread from 4 years ago to get an idea- https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/vzy0o/1#1utc4

Ultimately without a clear in game definition for SA AM, an arbitrary decision has to be made over the definition and not everyone will agree. It's the same with any category that isn't any% and 100% (and to an extent these two categories can also be considered arbitrary). All the categories are arbitrary WinWaker

Maybe we should take all the proposed AM definitions, stick them in CE and call it a day