Interesting mistake, fixed it

I thought you meant the cheatS codes actually, I see your point.

Won't waste time answering this though, IHL figured out a way to do it without tabs. You can get similar effects by only resizing the window. Basically that means that the tab glitch works with lag and doesn't directly modifies the code, which changes everything.

I wonder what we should do now, do we have to keep 2 categories for tab glitch/no tab glitch? That would probably feel a bit stupid at this point, but that's my opinion there.

Also, are there arguments for or against time conversions ? What comes to my mind is that it would be hard to get accurate times, also it would make my 100% one or two minutes faster than Milkman's even though it actually isn't

Then, in this case, you should ban the Tab Glitch for similar reasons to why the cheat codes are banned, because tab glitch is a smaller effect that the influence of a software can have on the game, but it stays one of these effects, explained why above ^

"Hardware manipulation" is here, an arbitrary notion that as a community, we do have to define, to avoid the utilisation of "cheat codes".

Luigi Early is a "trick" that shouldn't be possible in any of the official versions. I will explain that: On some demo versions, you can start with Luigi and do not need 32 star coins to unlock him. You have a red M button and a green L button in the file select menu. This has been removed in the official full versions, that are the only versions available for speedrunning.

However, even though it has been removed, you can still use these buttons. In fact, they weren't removed, but moved up in black space that is above the file select menu; you should not be able to see it. Resize your macromedia flash player window up and you'll be able to see these buttons.

This is only possible on the offline version, because you can't resize the window with the online version, even though the buttons still exist.

Online version has a framerate advantage over the offline version; it's faster.

If we use an executable version that runs with the online fps, by resizing the window, we'll be able to use the luigi early trick, hence why "luigi early with online framerate".

I hope that explanation was clear enough.

Framerate differences are between the online and offline version.

Also, why I think that tab glitch should be considered hardware manipulation:

The glitch uses the navigator to work, which is proven by the fact that it doesn't work on Firefox but works on Google Chrome That means, if we allow tab glitch, we do allow glitches that requires a special function of the software used to work, so every glitch that happens with the navigator has to be allowed That definition, then, allows tab glitch, but also allow every flash command-related glitch, since it uses software functions to work as Tab Glitch does, so it allows some skips between Space and Escape when you can just use Macromedia Flash Player's Step Forward function to skip the bowser fight, rooms of escape, and some other things, which lowers the time by about 1m30/2m

So let's sum up the reasoning:

• Tab glitch is on the same level as the flash commands glitches, they both use their software to work. Tab glitch uses Chrome which runs SM63, while the Flash Commands are available with Macromedia Flash Player 8 which also runs SM63

one is banned and the other is authorized ? That, objectively-speaking, makes no sense at all.

At this point, we may allow both ? Because the flash command that skips sections isn't that terrible, well, that depends on opinions I guess. But there's still something.

If we allow flash commands, we also allow this: It uses a flash command to get the last storyline star in less than 1 second, which actually completes the game.

This would obviously be banned, right ? Yeah, the speedrun would become stupid after that. Although you can't disagree that it would still be a speedrun. It would only be banned because it's stupid and requires barely no skill.

What is the problem here ? I explained before that the tab glitch has to be treated the same way as the flash command glitches, because both work because of their respective software. If we only allow tab glitch, that means we don't follow that; the reasoning becomes incoherent.

If we say that flash commands are hardware manipulation, then tab glitch is also hardware manipulation. If we allow one, we allow both. If we ban one, we ban both. Seeing what flash commands can do, it seems hard to not consider that they're not hardware manipulation, as they do have a big influence on the code of the game (teleporting to another level, you get a shine instantly without collecting it). Tab glitch is only a smaller effect of that, but it still is one (changes Mario's position in the game code).

The big difference is that the Tab Glitch makes the speedrun more interesting. But interesting does not mean viable. It would be very interesting to allow infinite explosives in a Ocarina of Time speedrun, to see what could be done. But in absolutely no way that's viable as a speedrunning category on speedrun.com.

Actually, in the old strawpoll, 5 people were agreeing with that hardware manipulation definition, the number of people agreeing with that isn't so low

Also Milk, your point #3 is absolutely true, it probably won't be allowed.

Hey, Sekanor there.

We had a discussion involving the main speedrunners of this game: me, iHaveLuigi7826 and TheMilkMan47. We put into question some of the main rules of the game.

The main rule that we redefined is the viability of the online version of the game. It has been previously decided by me and Frogyfro about one year ago that the offline, downloadable version of the game would be the only one that'd be authorized for speedrunning, because the online version has an unstable framerate number.

However, by experiencing with it a bit, mainly when we were testing the tab glitch (I'll talk about this later), we realised that the framerate number is unstable on online compared to the offline version, but the framerate itself is stable, and that the online version is faster. Realising that the main argument against the online version isn't viable, we decided to allow it, as it is also an official version of the game. Something important to precise too; the online version is faster than the offline version because its framerate is faster, so it saves time depending on the lenght of the run.

Two websites are authorized for the online version: http://runouw.com/games/sm63/ http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/498969

http://www.sheezyart.com/art/view/2096317/ would also be valid but it doesn't work anymore.

Any run played outside these two websites will be rejected.

Here is the problem now. Authorizing the online version creates a lot of new questions:

1. There's a glitch called Tab Glitch that involves opening a new tab right next to a wall to climb that wall. It is shown in this run in Bowser Trap #3 http://blog.naver.com/3124680/220516544828 made by iHaveLuigi7826. It works on Google Chrome, maybe Internet Explorer ? no one uses that Kappa but it doesn't work on Mozilla Firefox. It obviously only works on the online version, and this is a glitch that works in most of the online flash games. Because of it involving to create a tab in the browser, it has been banned before, because that was considered hardware manipulation, and also because online was banned. It will not be allowed in any of the main categories, should the tab glitch categories be added on speedrun.com (which involves that it doesn't break any of the general speedrun rules) or stay on the google doc leaderboard https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1omYaQvaZeb7iK5qY0V9e9jFYkLGMLbb0izuiPPfT6uA/edit#gid=1691914476 ?

2. A lot of runs have been previously done with the offline version of the game, which is slower than the online version, while the latter was banned. Should the offline version times done before the rule changement be converted to online timing, so we get the times that would've been if the run was done on the online version ?

3. I found a way to create an executable from the official .swf file that has the same framerate as the online version, but offline. Should this executable be allowed for speedruns ?

Come debate if you want to, we all do not agree with each other and every point and we thought that it would be interesting to get other people's opinion from here. Thanks in advance for reading, and for helping if you want to :)

Lol, even if SM63 is a great game to speedrun, it stays a flash game :^) and the 602 involves 3D Mario Games

Can't say that wouldn't be fun though haha

You only need to have collected this shine already.

I guess I will do them too because these runs will help for segmented speedruns and tutorials.

I also added an IL 100% category where you must collect every star & star coin in the world.

yeah I can add them. But nobody ever runs individual shines xD

Because you get the 33rd shine when you beat the game, so no you didn't have to collect the last one

That is really cool to know.

By the way just use my Fox TT strat and you'll save 5 seconds. It's probably harder to do though :p

I changed every timing to the Adventure Mode timing.

Oh yeah I do agree with this. I can't really do that myself because I'm not a mod of the series though.

The timing methods have to be the same for adventure mode & classic mode. Right now, here's how it is:

Adventure Mode > Starts when the "Go" button is pressed, ends on the first frame Master Hand dies on. Classic Mode > Starts when the "Go" button is pressed, ends when the "Continue" button is pressed.

We have to choose between the two timings and convert the times after that.

To me, the Adventure Mode timing is more accurate; sometimes, the cutscene after killing Master Hand doesn't always happen at the same moment for some reason, and that can change the time of the run and lose several seconds on good runs (around 3), that can influence the time of some runs and be pretty annoying to run with.

Your thoughts ?

BlackYoshi > your videos still do not work by the way

Also when I'll feel bored I'll route 100%, I like routing stuff

BlackYoshi Edit: I guess I've got no other option... Twitch it is.

Yep, emulators are not banned but hidden by default.

In my opinion, they shouldn't be hidden, but shown by default.

That is a flash command due to how Macromedia Flash Player 8 works. Basically flash commands have these effects on every flash game, and they're never allowed on speedruns because that's not ingame stuff.

So yeah, that's completely banned.

Oh wait, I just realised. I don't use the skip button in Floating Island in my Adventure Mode PB, but hyde does. Should it be allowed? I feel like doing the level is better, but, yeah I'm waiting for you guys' opinions.

Cool, I also improved that :)