SwitzerlandI cannot say for certain, but while rtrger's load remover works for all (or more) versions, there might be some differences in the amount of loading times that are removed, meaning your timer would pause for longer if you use his script compared to the "old" one.
I think most of us if not everyone used the "old" script (that is implemented in LiveSplit if you select Transistor as the game) for their runs, so for consistency it would probably be the best to stick with that one. As fhnnhf mentioned, it requires a specific version to work properly, so if you're having issues with downpatching, let us know.
I'm bringing this up seeing how for my Low% runs lately, using rtrger's script I had discrepancies of 2:02 and 2:05 minutes between my real time and my real time without loads (might have had a few extra reloads which could explain the additional difference?), while with the old script I had a discrepancy of 1:47 for two runs. The sample size is not huge, hence why I cannot confirm this with certainty, but it's still worth mentioning (and maybe investigating in general). Sorry for not bringing this up earlier as I forgot posting about it before leaving for vacations.
Personally I tend to be rather lenient with tricks before considering them glitches. I especially try to distinguish them from things that are unintended, but still within the realm of normal game mechanics use. That's why "this looks unnatural" or "this looks unintended" usually is not enough of an argument to classify something as a glitch for me. That being said, I'm not a glitchless runner, which definitely makes me biased towards not seeing something as a glitch.
Floating grenade (1) I also see as a glitch - the specific setup needed (where the angle you throw the grenade at and the equipped weapon determine if the grenade gets stuck in midair) as well as the fact that the behavior changes when having V-Sync enabled (or disabled), makes this a pretty clear case for me.
The slope kick (2) I do not see as a glitch. The analogy to TRL/TRA's rolls or backwards handsprings up slopes has already been brought up, as it seems like the animation of the maneuver takes precedence over getting pushed down. Lara being able to pull out her weapons to get some more distance is questionable, but you can neither chain kicks into kicks or any combination of kicks and weapon toggles past the first transition of kick into weapon toggle. After that first kick and weapon toggle, you're going down, and consistently so. That to me makes it more of an exploit rather than a glitch as it is a case of animations overlapping/being prioritized.
Clipping I don't see as a glitch in general, but would consider it as such if it allows you to bypass or pass through otherwise solid objects. 3A I don't see as a glitch - yes parts of Lara can clip into the debris, but you still have to jump over it and can't just pass through them. Those part you clip into never have collision, the texture doesn't match up with the collision. I think you can encounter numerous examples of such clipping issues in many spots in the game. 3B I see as a glitch if performed as in the second attempt in the video, because I think you "pop" out of being inside the slope. In the first attempt you're not clipping into anything solid from what I can tell. However, the extreme, almost pure upwards boost at the start of the swandive may be grounds for classification as a glitch, which I have no strong opinion on. Generally I don't see a problem with getting smaller boosts off collision, though cases like these are definitely debatable. 3C I see as a glitch because you can pass through an otherwise solid object. Note: If there was no collision on that rock, only the texture and you could just run through it, I probably wouldn't consider to be a glitch, to further demonstrate my line of thought. Same point as I tried to make with 3A.
For the Thailand statue thing (4) I have no experience to rely on. If the collision in fact does instantly transform from flat ground to a stairs shape, then it's more of a case of a texture mismatch, which would probably mean I wouldn't see it as a glitch. If Lara is physically transported "inside" the collision and you could "pop" out again, I would see it as a glitch. I don't know which one of the two applies.
I agree on the bike fall damage cancel (5) being a glitch as it is a way of altering normal game mechanics such as fall damage with a specific setup and requirements having to be met for this to work in predefined spots.
As an addendum, there is also always the option of having a "No Major Glitches" category or similar where you only disallow the more egregious and obvious glitchy things, while you can use Glitchless or whatever you want to call it to be more restrictive.
Update: Load remover/Autosplitter script is integrated in LiveSplit, choose the game in Edit Splits... and activate the script in the same menu.
While load times are very insignificant and almost not noticeable in normal play, it has become clear that the longer the game runs, the longer its load times become. This can lead to multiple seconds being lost to load times within the first chapter alone, so this can add up to a pretty significant amount.
To solve this problem, I have created a load remover with autosplitting capabilities. It can be found in the Resources section and is meant for use in LiveSplit. With Timelie being a Unity game, coding an autosplitter/load remover is more difficult than for other games. Some issues are still present with the script, and I will update it with new functionalities and fixes.
Nonetheless, I suggest to use it for full-game runs from now. This way, it is no longer necessary to restart the game to get rid of the longer loading times. Furthermore, the autosplitting feature allows for consistent timing.
Currently, the default settings make the autosplitter split on any level transition except for:
- Going from a "bridge" level (second to last level of any chapter) to the last level of a chapter.
- Going from a last level of a chapter back to the hub.
This is a personal choice, as in both cases, there is no real gameplay, just skipping cutscenes and selecting the next level. However, the game will split after going through a door in the lobby (for the final split of a chapter). There are settings available that let you choose to change at what points to split in the run.
Note that currently, the autosplitter will only start when choosing realm 1 of chapter 1. It may also not work the very first time after booting up the game. Sometimes it is necessary to enter a realm and go back to the hub. These are some of the issues I want to fix in later versions of the script.
Another extension to the load remover would allow for better splitting for IL runs. Currently, there is no splitting when restarting a level, so it is not an IL friendly script. Once there are settings to allow for splitting after restart, IL boards could be added if there is interest in them.
Previous runs have their RTA copied over into the RTA w/o loads column. Due to the coding of the autosplitter, timing for All Realms run will no start when the first realm starts, and no longer on realm selection.
Hi, have you disabled Steam Cloud synchronization? Right-click on Timelie in your Steam library -> Properties -> Updates, and remove the tick on "Enable Steam Cloud synchronization for Timelie". Then you should be able to simply copy over the savefile in the specified location without Steam pulling your cloud saves and replacing it.
Hi all
So far there is one category, which is NG+ All Realms. I see this as the main category and have not added Any% yet. As far as I can tell, the differences between the two would be as follows:
- Any% consists of the exact same realms plus the prologue, which is missing in NG+. However, there is no time control in the prologue, so the time differences would be very minute.
- Any% cannot skip cutscenes, as this functionality is only added after watching them for the first time. However, there are roughly 30 minutes of combined cutscenes in an Any% run, which makes up half of its length, leading to substantial chunks of downtime.
- Any% can unlock relics which lead to a 2 second information screen for each obtained relic. This could lead to some potential route changes to avoid getting a relic, in contrast to NG+ runs, where relics are already collected, so they do not matter. I expect these route changes to be very small though if there are any.
Since the bulk of gameplay is identical, I will wait until there is increased interest in Any% runs or more reasons to add them.
On a related note, an All Relics category would be another possibility, requiring the player to complete all the challenges before finishing the run. This would also have to be done from a fresh file to keep track of the relics collected, since NG+ has the relics grayed out by default after collecting them. With 15 relics in total, some of which require some pretty big detours or different strats if I remember correctly, this could be reason enough to add NG All Relics as a category, possible as a compromise to not having Any%?
Is there any way for you to record your game so we could have a better look at what's happening (or not happening)?
Do you get the "!"-prompt indicating that you can pick up the guns when you fire the grappling hook? If not, make sure to let go of forward. If you keep holding it, you cannot pick them up. This is the most common oversight. I can also recommend watching runs which display their keyboard (or controller) inputs, so you can replicate them more easily.
Hi all, I picked up this game in an attempt to learn about coding a load remover and autosplitter. The load remover is fully implemented, while the autosplitter needs a bit more tweaking, as it sometimes double splits on level transitions (I'm aware of the reasons behind this, but haven't had the time to fix it yet, should be able to soon though). The autosplitter also starts on its own when gaining control in the first level, as defined in the rules.
After fixing the splitting issue, I will provide the .asl file if there is any interest in it. I'm aware this game is not actively run anymore. I just wanted to put out the option to switch to RTA w/o loads. Doing so would probably also change the route in some spots as checkpoint resets, which currently take more time than just sitting through conversations, would become viable.
Sure, just wanted to make you aware of it. Since I also used your guide for the downpatching, everything should be fine as long as that version is used. ?
I think this might not be the end of the story as the load remover appears to behave differently from before. I suspected something was not right when I golded the "Goldwalk Revisited" split (start of backtracking part of the game, from Empty Set to the last bike cutscene) by 3 seconds which is very suspicious for a split this short and with no real RNG to speak of.
So I compared how the load remover behaves in runs now and how it behaved in my PB from 2.5 years ago, and indeed, the load remover stopped for a way shorter period of time back in the day.
Look at how the stopping of the timer is barely noticeable in my old run:
Compare that to a "PB" I got today:
Now it is possible that my PC has slowed down in the meantime, however, I timed the duration of the entire black screen in this level transition RTA (11.33s vs 11.5s), and especially considering there is one digit less of precision in the new run, for all intents and purposes, the black screen goes on for the same length.
So tl;dr: Level transition goes on for the same duration, but more load time is removed with the current load remover.
Now it's not as bad as you might expect. My PB today is 11s faster RTA, but 18s faster RTA w/o loads compared to my old PB, so I guess I got around 7s of "free" time save. Not a disaster, but definitely significant. As long as the load remover behaves the same now for everyone, I personally don't mind the "free" time save even though it does give you an edge over older runs. But nonetheless,I guess the cleanest approach would be to simply have a load remover for current patch.
After you go OoB from the visible part of the map, go left and then down for like a second each (to avoid getting stuck at a corner), and then straight right until the camera stops moving. From there:
Up right for 15s Up until the OVC Terminal textbox is fully visible Up right until Transistor finishes his second voice line Up until you hear the savepoint activating Up left for 5 seconds Straight left until you trigger the humming cutscene
It's very well possible that there is a faster setup, but this is the one I've been using to get to the correct spot consistently.
Sadly my friend will not be able to continue on creating the new load remover because the person who helps him with it, or rather teaches him, is not available for the foreseeable future, so some other people can try again. :^)
Saving mid-jump to avoid losing momentum when loading while grounded I think could be fine in case where you don't want to rule out saving and loading mid-jump in general. Saving mid-jump to clear gaps or making clearing them or obstacles (both horizontally or vertically) more consistent (or even possible in the first place) I think is not fine because the game mechanics are actively altered to gain an advantage. The best way would be for the runners themselves to make sure to not save (and especially load the save) during any kind of jump which could lead to an advantage from the distance gained (or simply don't save at all during jumps). Further than that it might only be possible to judge the significance on a case by case basis.
I also think the Parisian Backstreets level end trigger strat should be ruled on definitively. For me, there is no game mechanic altering, and we don't physically go through collision, so personally I would rather say it's an exploit of the game mechanics. But I can also see it being banned due to the unintended large range for reaching triggers of the crouch.
Canceling alt+f4 to cancel triggers should stay banned in general, just because the cutscenes are a nuisance, I don't think we should allow it. Also, these are our only breaks, please don't remove them! :^)
Regarding moon jumps: I always make sure to quicksave while grounded. It takes a bit of getting used to it, but it's the save approach. Technically it would be better to quicksave mid jump because you don't lose any momentum when quickloading this way, while Lara usually comes to a halt when quickloading while being grounded.
Completely banning loading midair saves would be the cleanest and safest approach as mentioned, but requires heightened focus for the verifying team, and let's be honest, in most cases it doesn't really result in true moon jumps. So the alternative would be to only ban loading midair saves if a true advantage is gained over jumping normally, that is to say, extending your jump length horizontally or vertically to a point where you can cross gaps, reach ledges or triggers etc. which you would not be able to with the normal jump you have at your disposal. I think this is a good alternative, though it may lead to some sketchy scenarios, where you could also reach a platform by jumpüing normally, but only with a very precise jump. Moonjumping would make crossing the gap a lot easier and consistent. So another way to rule this would be to not allow quicksaving mid jump if you cross a significant gap or something? To prevent extended moonjumping, I guess you could ban repeated saves during the same jump or similar.
Regarding the Strahov railing clip, I honestly don't think a penalty should be issued for existing runs using this. The category is still rather "young", at least with the current route and runners, and the runs are far from optimized. The trick saves maybe 5s max - so this is not something which really impacts the lay of the land right now. People who want to improve their time can still do so rather easily, so as long as it's made clear that this is not allowed, the problem should probably solve itself.
Another thing I'd like to mention is the possibility to reset timed events by quicksaving (first gate in Lost Domain). I know the gate closes and reopens every time you load after activating it. Is this only a visual thing or does the timer actually reset?
It seems like the June 18th 2018 update, which introduced some localization fixes, also had an effect on our LiveSplit load remover, as it does not seem to work anymore.
Personally I have no experience with load removers so I cannot fix this issue (assumption is hardcoded pointers). If anyone does know how to handle this or knows someone who could look into it, help would be highly appreciated.
Since RTA w/o loads is our primary timing method, I guess this also means that no new runs can be submitted until the load remover is fixed. (?)
Hi, as the rules state, BTG does not allow airwalk, bug jump and framerate limiting.
