There is a coop run on Mania where both players are using Max. Should we leave this run or should I remove it?

In order to play as the same character you enter a code at the title screen. For those of you who like definitions, I'm leaving a few down below so we can examine and think.

Cheat: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination. "she always cheats at cards"

Urban Dictionary: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cheat%20Codes In the gaming world: Cheat Codes use to refer just to entering in a sequence of inputs either buttons from a controller or characters from a keyboard used to change the way your games are played. Cheat Codes are created by the developer and put in the game intentionally. This idea originated from game testers to be able to easily skip levels, heal their character, gain an item, etc to effectively test the game. The term Cheat Code is now commonly used for anything to help a player with their game. Cheat Codes now can be actual codes typed in to unlock a feature of the game or hint like a location of a hidden item players want to find. Can be a strategy to perform a function in the game as well.

We seem to be having a great deal of difficulty defining what is a "Cheat Code." Personally, I think Urban Dictionary does a pointless job in defining what a cheat code is. I find the normal definition to be more helpful. Let's move away from defining and instead look at the specific situation of inputting a code for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage.

Does entering a code give an unfair advantage? If I enter a code and play on Very Easy, then I play against other Very Easy competitors. So no, I don't have an unfair advantage. We all have the same advantage. If I enter a code and then enter another code (2 different codes), then I play against other Very Easy players, but I get to use 2 of the fastest character instead of 2 different characters. Yes, now I have an unfair advantage. I'm using a "code" to gain an unfair advantage on my competitors.

The argument could be made that a player who is not using a code, could also just use a code. If there was a code that made my character invulnerable to damage, it would give me an unfair advantage over the game. If people wanted to play the game in this fashion, they should be categorized separately from people who do not because they would have an unfair advantage.

The argument could be made that Very Easy gives you an unfair advantage over the game. I agree that it does, but it doesn't give you an unfair advantage over competitors who are also playing on Very Easy. The polar opposite of this is Mania. There is no unfair advantage to playing the game on Mania. Putting a code in, does not change your starting lives or the level you begin the game on (the player may manually change these things to give themselves an unfair advantage.) Or, a player can change the starting lives to give themselves a disadvantage because they are hardcore.

My final argument: let's say a player enters a code A+B then goes into the options menu (intentionally or by accident.) They change nothing in the options, exit the options, selects their character and speedruns the game. What should we do? They entered a code. It doesn't matter, because it won't give them an unfair advantage. It does not change the way the game is played as opposed to anyone else who is speedrunning on normal.

I do understand the concern on that one but would it be fair to refuse a run like this ? it would be unfair to refuse people who run Veasy or Mania cause they're doing something completely different from the main difficulties.

I mean we should let people competing on that for a Misc category if so. In order to be fair, they're not infringing any game breaking rules they're just aware of Max being the best character to run fast and this code can be done for others as well there's nothing blocking you from using it.

This is drawing lines in a weird way i admit but there's so much other things you can do with the cheat option code.

Also does this code only work in certain region ?

I'm going to approach this from a different angle: I think we all agree that a speedrun timer should start when you gain control of your character (at the start of level 1) and you stop the timer when you lose control (at the end of level 8). We agree on this?

We agree that someone playing on Mania should not be competing in the same category as someone playing on Very Easy, despite them both using the same Code. Yes?

For the sake of moving forward, let's say that you need to use a "Cheat Code" to play Mania. Should a person who uses one "Cheat Code" be categorized with a person who uses 2 "Cheat Codes" ?

Does using the "Cheat Code" of same character give an unfair advantage to those who use it against those that do not?

Don't think this case is a matter of cheat codes or not, but a matter of playing in the same category. 2Players category does not allow same character, so if you use a cheat code to achieve that, you are not in the same category anymore. If you want to add a special category for that, then it is another discussion I guess.

I agree with Slavicus. I think there should just be a separate “double character coop” category. I don’t think the runs should be deleted entirely however.

Thanks everyone for letting me know what you think. I'm going to agree with what the consensus seems to be. I don't think that particular run belongs with the other runs that don't use the same character code, but I don't think it would be fair for me to remove a run that has already been verified. I think the best course is to try and see what Lotus thinks about it. If he wants to remove his run, fine. If he doesn't, that's fine too. If I had a separate category to place it, I would, but I don't think we should be creating categories for a single run (or creating categories because we don't know where a run should belong).

I'll try and get a hold of Lotus. If anyone knows how to contact him, go for it. I'm curious to see if he thinks his run belongs in the category. Obviously, he should have a say in this.

I agreed though if it was not clear, this shouldn't be in the category but in a separate one. Lotus always answer on youtube he's friendly i'm sure he'll not see a problem.

The question was "do we allow 2 same character", i say yes as long as people want to do it and will provide runs. For now we do not need to create one for this run only.

I talked to Lotus, he's very friendly. I got the impression that if he was asked, he would remove a run even if there wasn't any reason to remove it; he seems to be very accommodating.

For that reason I don't have any plans to ask him to remove his run or to remove it myself.

"The question was "do we allow 2 same character", i say yes as long as people want to do it and will provide runs. For now we do not need to create one for this run only." <---agree