I have a catagory idea for 70 star and 120 star. glitchless would imply that tricks are still allowed. an example is sky jump in BOB would be allowed but bob omb clip would not be allowed. Flyguyless would be, but pillarless would not be. in 120, lblj would not be allowed, nor would the JRB clip for jet stream to skip metal cap. taking advantage of the fact that hmc does not have a celling is allowed. in JRB, the cannonless that Cheese uses is allowed as it is not a glitch, however framewalk would not be allowed. in 120 because you need the metal cap for JRB, it would require a small route change, just do CCM where JRB would normally be done, and after you get the vanish cap, do JRB instead. kicking up slopes is allowed, and triple jumping up slopes is also allowed. tricks are allowed, but glitches are not.
indeed, ye, is just that they never putted a ceiling in that map area and you can do by it is more of an exploit than a glitch
I think swimming in JRB to the jet stream star might not count as glitch as you only need to swim to get the star. Framewalk wouldn't be a glitch either, because you just walk through the pilar (but this maybe requires some glitch definition, idk). Otherwise I think is a pretty cool idea, I'd definitely give it a try
Ship clip in JRB I could get as being a glitch, same with the clip to get to chests, but jet stream literally just requires you to swim normally. It's definitely not a glitch by your definitions I'd say. Frame walk is tricky, if you're going to ban it you're banning unintended mechanics that allow you to climb slopes. Would you also ban silly kicks at that point? I would personally say it could be a neat category, but to me I would say no clips would be a better split. No clipping through walls/into objects, that would rework a lot of the game but still make sense as a split.
i feel like the confussion about what counts as a glitch usualy is one of the main reasons for glitchless not to be a thing in a lot of games in the site lol then yea it is cool and everyone agrees to give it a try, but each one invents its own rules about glitches lol
also remember that indeed 70 stars kinda bans a lot of glitches basicaly to dont allow exploits in the castle
Even 70 star rules make no sense tbh, they're quite arbitrary. It makes sense as a category to ban any form of circumventing star door requirements, but why ban BLJs inside of stages? You're allowed to use basically every glitch to get stars except for BLJs, it makes no real sense.
Agreed with Volantis. There is a pretty developed definition that works for pretty much all romhacks, and it could be used to define 70 star as well
There are things that can happen without the player wanting to do them which are glitches and also, its hard to define what is or isnt a glitch. Still, I think that with a bit of thinking, rules could be made to separate glitches and a hlitchless category might be cool
This is a small thing but you definitely don't need metal cap for JRB unless you count perfect swimming as a glitch
i think the perfect swimming in JRB will not be counted as a glitch, neither will kicking up slopes. I think the rule should be anything that is obviously a glitch is banned. Ex: cannonless, pillarless, groundpounding through whomp king, door glitch in BBH, breezeless
glitchless categories are in general really stupid, especially for a game as broken as this game.
As someone who hasn’t even learned bomb clip I like this except that I think silly kicks is more of a glitch than a trick and I don’t really want to do runs without silly kicks. Also I’m with the others that swimming into jet stream isn’t a glitch.
If you can't do bomb clip then just take the small time loss rather than making a new category. You don't have to do the fastest strats in a game to be good at the category you're running. Some tricks are difficult, but that's just the nature of speedrun strats. If you want to go fast, it's gonna be hard.
The way I see it, silly kicks would be a glitch because its using a MECHANIC in the game the developers didn’t intend. A trick is fair game because your using the mechanics in the game that the developers put there on purpose just in creative ways that reach an objective in ways they didn’t realize would be possible. When you silly kick you are using a hidden mechanic in the game that wasn’t put there on purpose (continuing to hold A prevents the game from updating the state of Mario from on flat ground to Mario on a slope thus allowing you to continue gaining forward momentum by kicking). This is the same kind of exploit as backwards long jumps to take advantage of the developers not capping Mario’s backwards speed; both silly kicks and BLJ’s take advantage of a hidden mechanic in the game that if the developers knew was there they would have patched, a glitch. BLJ’s involve clipping so i could see the argument that that makes them more of a glitch but from my perspective they are both glitches.
Again, I don’t really want to speedrun SM64 without silly kicks, they are just way too much fun to get rid of. I’m just to trying to make the point that in my opinion, a true glitchless run wouldn’t include silly kicks and if we leave them in we’re just picking and choosing. There’s nothing inherently wrong with picking and choosing, if there was we wouldn’t have category extensions but there seems to be a lack of definition to what exactly a glitch is. If i had to define it though, i would say a glitch is the exploit of a HIDDEN mechanic in the game that when used defeats the purpose of level design (breaks the game). This is also why i think perfect swimming into the jet streams is not a glitch. While it does break the level design, it does so with mechanics in the game you are expected to use. This is the same for exploiting the lack of ceiling in HMC; it defeats the level design but only using existing mechanics in the game that you are expected to use. This is just my two cents and I’m a relative newcomer here so feel free to disagree with me but i think my logic is sound.
Regardless, for a game as broken as this there's no need for a glitchless category. We're not under Twin Galaxies' rules anymore, nor do we want to return to their ruleset.
Also silly kicks aren't a glitch. Nobody in the community really thinks they are a glitch anyways. It's more like exploiting an oversight.
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