Why? I mean, if more people want it sure. But no point adding categories for the hell of it. Also, dont think Hard will be fun. We play on very easy so it limits the RNG. Harder difficulties have more RNG and will be 10x more frustrating to run. We'll just get to Corrupted Shinnok and hell beat us into the ground for 10 minutes. Doesnt sound like a good run to me.
But Id love to hear opinions.
Hey Shade,
We run the hardest categories for most of the other MKs, including MK9. In the classic MK games, there's barely any difference between Very Easy and Very Hard, as it all evens out when you reach the top of the tower.
But I'll be the first to admit that the Hardest difficulty in MKX is unreal. It's not like the other games. Still, I support adding it as a category. I think it would be interesting to see what people can do on that level of difficulty.
Yeah. Hard in MKX the AI techs every single throw lol. Its just that the optimal strats do the same thing over and over, and if the AI blocks or ducks more than a few times the runs over.
That said, what difficulties would you guys Prefer? I dont really want 10 categories of difficulties. Unless I made them misc categories. I just dont see it being a popular run in MKX (becasue of how absurd the AI is).
There could be 3 maybe? Very Easy-Easy Medium-Hard then Very Hard
Maybe. I dont want to make categories for the sake of it tho. Feel like itll just result in a bunch of empty categories, as ive seen before. A leaderboard is supposed to provoke competition after all. Ill probs start with a hard category for both Story mode and for tower. If it gets attention we'll open up more. I would prefer adding categories that fundamentally change the run, whereas I feel stuff like very easy and easy are too similar.
For example, ive seen other games like Tekken have categories involving beating the arcade mode (the equivalent of the tower) with every character, or with say 6 or 10 characters. I feel like this changes the run in such a way that clearly differs it from the current standard. Like, Blood god makes the run super easy mode. But in say a 6 character run we would be forced to play other characters AND different runners would choose different characters in different orders potentially making runs unique (cuz as it stands, the current tower run is pretty much impossible to beat without being blood god). My only problem with this potential category is the fact that the end cinematics are not skippable, which is really annoying.
But as I keep saying I want peoples feedback on everything :P
It's a tough call. We should wait for the feedback. Am not to sure about the towers because I don't run them but am up for a harder story.
The 6 player thing is a great idea. I think the biggest problem with the multi categories is we dont have many players running the ones we have currently
Thats my biggest concern, is well have a bunch of categories that maybe 1 person will run once and then will never get touched.
Ok.
If anyone wants a new category of dificulty post in this thread that you would also be willing to run such a category as well. Id say if people are willing to run it before a leaderboard is officially made then that would show theyre willing to put time into it rather than doing a single run and leaving. Better yet if people would record actual runs before a leaderboard is up im sure it would definitely convince us that it deserves attention, provided at least a few people do as well.
I also dont want people suggesting a new category so they can get an easy WR. Thats not what speedruns are about.
Does this sound good?
I might try a run on very hard tomorrow to see how it goes.
I just dont know what the viable fast strat would be. U cant braindead it like we do with blood god now. Because the A.I. specifically reacts to repeated actions. Their reactions are also non human. Its a far more difficult thing to theorize, and I dont see where the competition would be, its just RNG. But thats my opinion having not done it yet. Ill see how it actually plays out.
I used to play Tanya as Kobo variation used to be broken and Very Hard AI couldn't do anything to normal pressure he just respected my pressure and I was getting combos in every now and then. I think we should look for something similar that Very Hard AI wont know how to deal with. Back then I cleared the VeryHard tower deathless. There are ofc different starts if we go into harder modes as its 95% sure ur oki uppercut will be blocked so you need to go with the combos and block pressure to drain their life out. But its much more execution heavy category to go with and with the current patch we should look at the fighters with good combo damage with little resources, meter building and pressure/chip damage.
Don't know if this is still a debate or not, but just thought I would join in. I would run the game if there was a category for harder difficulties, it would make runs far more challenging and more entertaining for people to watch too. Less RNG means less skill which means a more brain dead run. To be fair anyone could use Kotal and spam totem, d2 and blood offer. Not meaning to sound condescending, but it is true. Also Shade said that Hard AI techs every throw which is incorrect in current patch, I do not know about very hard however. I reckon Very Hard would be overdoing it. The AI is very good in this games current patch and although it will not do a full combo 90% of the time, it will punish you for every mistake made. So I believe that Hard would be a reasonable difficulty as it is optimal for the sake of making the game good to watch and challenging enough to where it is not too difficult, but not too easy.
My problem with harder difficulties is that it almost nullifies all competition. If someone gets god level RNG, then theres not much you can do to beat that unless you get lucky. I would say more RNG = less skill, not the other way around. More RNG = more luck. The higher dicciulties dont change what the A.I. can do, it just increases the chance that the A.I. will do more things more often. Even on the easiest difficulties the A.I. can wake up xray, or breaker, and something as simple as blocking a D2 means ur run is potentially over. I just dont see how a harder run could be remotely competitive. Fighting game runs require skill to stay consistent. But MKX in particular has no consistency, even on very easy. I wish there was some sort of A.I. manipulation that we could figure out, that would make the run way more skill involved, cause as is its just hope for the best to get a good run.
And I wasnt being literal with my throw tech example. Just something to say if the A.I. can tech something thats a straight guess alot of the time, then you're relying on RNG that things go in your favour. If they can tech a 50/50 throw, they're gonna block whatever you throw at them the majority of the time. And its no fun knowing you lost a run because someone elses A.I. didnt block a move when yours did.
I still want to do a test run before potentially adding more difficulties. And I dont want to add categories because 1 person wants to run it. Free world records arent the point of speedrunning. If theres no competition for a category, then theres no need for a leaderboard. So if people express intesrest ill add it. Im not gonna keep people from competing just because I dont think it will be an entertaining run.
I actualy did some Hard runs they take about 15-16 minutes RTA for me. Got even 1 double flawless during one of the runs. I have played Sektor in them and might do a run run to upload and share it with you guys. The runs should be able to clear consistent without round loses and stuff like that. Another thing that I noticed was a tech to skip Jason appearing into the ladder. You can see the oppoments of the ladder as you pick your character so simply if you see some1 you wanna skip just return to main menu to get new seed for the oppoments.
Hard category wouldn't be bad addition into this game as other games only run with hardest difficulties I know Very Hard is kind a too much cos its broken but Hard would be cool addition. I would run it too and shade gz for WR in ladder need to beat that now :P
Haha, thanks. That run suprised me, did it about an hour before travelling for a tourney :P
Unfortunately I lost the pad I use for Fighting games, so I wont be running the game anytime soon. Good chance to run other games. It would be interesting to compare the exact differences between each difficulty exactly. Like percentages of how often the A.I. breaks, blocks mixups, techs a throw etc. I was experimenting using Flame Fist before I got that WR, cuz you can do realy good damage really fast with little to no setup + it keeps them standing so wakeups and mistiming oki isnt really an issue. But Ive never used liu so I gave up pretty quick.
If the A.I. isnt consistently overpowered on harder difficulties, It could end up being a run with a bit more diversity, as we may all have to play the characters we are most familiar with, as split second decision making comes more naturally with a character you already have good muscle memory with.
Never considered the inbetween difficulties. Only really played Very easy, normal and Very hard. Like I said would be interesting to see what differences are between each one going from VE-E-N-H-VH. But that sounds like a lot more work than people might be willing to do.
Well very easy bot has his skills too :P
But yea I do main sonya in this game but shes not a character that I would consider speed running in any category cos of his lack in dmg input. If I remember correct shes one of the slowest fighters in the story mode too..
But I do play plenty of characters casually so I don't mind learning another one into speed runs. I also tested the LK in Hard and VE mode with flame fist but he loses in VE like 2-3 secs and breaks happen too often. And he lacks plus frames in Hard mode in my opinion. I was using sektor cos he has a special cancelable string 114 that is +2 on block so it guarantees me a poke if AI doesn't armor me and its really easy to confirm into a teleport in hit. At the latest levels I managed to get like 5-6 times in row all in block 114,poke,114,poke and so on if I manage to hit with 114 I will cancel it into the tp and do 35~% with 1 meter conversion that is good dmg with 1 meter and you will be getting tons of meter by doing that pressure.
About gathering info about these numbers might be really hard cos while AI being quiet consistent with his behavior its always random in my opinion. I think it also some of its decisions depends on round and its health.
E: Sorry about the big video I wanted just to post a link into it :D
