Thanks for the link, jay_yeen. Will the leaderboard of Speedrun.com be updated to include that category? or are there still arguing about it? Who is in charge of doing that, btw?

I would join the discord and ask in the discussion, Glitchless, or feedback channels.

Hey guys, I'm fairly new to speedrunning. I held 11th place for GHZ act 1 in sonic mania (switch) in 2020 for a couple months, and I recently started speedrunning dread.

My runs are getting better every time and I felt confident enough to visit this site to compare, only to find out that a glitchless category doesn't exist. I came to this thread to investigate, and was taken aback by how arbitrary and ineffectual the discussion was. Forgive my ignorance, but the fact that there is a distinction that defines a "major" glitch, but no category for glitchless is absolutely absurd. I've also seen comments suggesting it would be difficult to define what a glitch even is, and while I understand the rules need to be clearly established, this only serves to muddy the waters.

The rules of a glitchless run are simple. If it is plainly obvious that the developers put it there intentionally, then it's legal. If you even have to ask if something was intentional, then it probably isn't. For example - bomb jumping yes, pseudo wave no. Early grapple yes, water bomb jumping no. Even something like damage boosting in morph ball is obviously legal since the developers programmed the morph ball to have more knock back. This isn't rocket science guys.

My current pb is 2:48 on rookie mode, so i am not even close to being a contender for any record. That being said, I feel discouraged from continuing to make runs, since all of my work mastering the mechanics and planning perfect routes without resorting to glitches has effectively gone to waste. I am baffled that one of the reasons given for not having the most basic and easily defined category, is that it risks "splintering the community" when this same community has a distinction between major and minor glitches, in addition to an "all bosses" category. I'm no expert, but I see 4 categories - glitches, and glitchless, either any% or 100%. Divide those into the 4 difficulties and you already have 16 categories. Splitting hairs and making a ton of categories while not even including the most basic one just seems both arbitrary and unfair.

I apologize if I sound agressive or disrespectful, and I don't intend to criticize anyone in particular or the community in any way. I am also probably ignorant of plenty of details not discussed in this thread that may or may not be very important. I am just very passionate about the work I've done running dread, and the integrity of my glitchless runs is very important to me. To have all of that effectively invalidated while something arbitrary like major and minor glitches get unique categories is not very gang gang if you ask me. Not very gang gang at all. Ultimately, it may not matter either way, but I've said my piece.

There actually is a glitchless category in speedrun.com! Rather, it's technically a sub-category under All Bosses. But many of us have submitted official glitchless runs for it, so you are free to do the same. Many of us in the past also desired glitchless to be in the leaderboards, and we're glad that is now a thing.

There is a non-arbitrary reason for having an all bosses category, and it's because you can skip bosses without glitches (glitchless Early Ice Missile is probably the most prominent example of this). If you're fine with that, then you could definitely submit there, if not, then definitely keep agitating for Any% Glitchless.

"The rules of a glitchless run are simple." Actually, they are not. Take the above mentioned early ice. This skip is compromised of 100% developer intended mechanics, but there are indicators that it was not an intended sequence break. Not a glitch. Not developer intended. The names are arbitrary but serve a loose purpose/idea that the community agrees upon the definition for. Some have stricter definitions than others. That's okay, but it doesn't make anyone more or less correct.

None of your "work has gone to waste" or been "invalidated." You don't need these boards to tell you how to play your runs. (Not to mention these boards don't mean anything except bragging rights in the grand scheme of things.) It's fine if you want to participate in the boards as well, but doing so means compromise. Every person who runs these boards does so with the same rules. That's what gives them validity. Adhere to them, push for a new or updated board, or don't participate in them. You can still be a part of the community regardless of your option. It's been a pretty welcoming community so far including people who don't even run the game.

Lastly, if you were aware enough to apologize for sounding aggressive/disrespectful, it would make more sense to alter your tone or just stand by it. Especially in a forum, where by you're own admission, you are new and have little background information. It's not a real time conversation either. Posts and responses can be thought out, re-hashed, and adjusted before anyone ever gets to read them. Apologizing for being disrespectful sounds hollow when you had plenty of opportunity not to be and still made several statements that contradict that position anyway.

And note that it is acceptable to add some restrictions personally to your run as long as it follows the other rules. Such as you may run Not-All-Bosses Glitchless and submit the run as NMG Any% run, and same goes Glitchless run without early ice and Raven Beak melee aiming.(of course if you understand delay made from these restrictions) Just have fun!

Actually, LeakySpigot, not only are they easy, they have already been established clearly already As I had already laid down before: The "no Major Glitch" rule establish that what is forbidden are: -Shine Sink Clip -Ledge Warp -Camera Lock -Invincibility -Axis Skew

But allow: -Pseudo Wave -Reverse Grapple -Water Bomb Jump

For a glitchless run, simply forbid -Pseudo Wave -Reverse Grapple -Water Bomb Jump Too.

jay_yeen even provided a link to an existing leaderboard following those rules: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oLKeyIfmjRw6r7m4TmQcA0Ski9EHvoBb4A4DUwPMkpo/edit?usp=sharing

My response was not in regards to the rules as outlined by the board, but as to what defines a glitch.

My bad.

can glitchless be? "you must grab all of the upgrades" like the scanner.