I've been playing this game for the past 15 years. Me and my brother have played this game for thousands of hours (literally, we learned our English thanks to this game). We got a few questions for you about a few specific rules in the "glitchless" cat.

1. Stealing control cube
2. Repeated use of wells or shrines
3. Using followers at Shoals or Lincoln
4. Completing Vampires without killing Vampire Lord

Can someone please explain how are these the rules in the GLITCHLESS category when none of these are glitches. I respect that these may be your personal rulesets, but these should not be reflecting on the glitchless boards. Every causal player can do those tricks without having the consent that these are actually "glitches".

1. Control cube is meant to be stolen. What defines it as a glitch?

2. Wells are meant to be used. Imagine doing a run and you're allowed to "refresh" your HP only once. Just because they allowed players to get infinite SP/ EXP in the land of the giants, that doesn't mean it's an error/bug/glitch. It is clearly intentional and I like how people have come up with different strategies for that.

Please confirm what defines multiple uses on a single fountain as a glitch.

3. That's a tricky one, we're still allowed to use the jar right, because it's a different location (warp) and not a bug/glitch. That jar isn't there by a random accident.

4. Alright, vampire part is really a bug as it's not in their intended player journey and it's legitematelly broken. However, is it really a glitch abuse if you don't do anything.

Looking forward to any mod responses before double checking with the content mods.

Also on a sidenote, from previous forum discussions there were made separate categories for light/dark side. There's a clean nearly 7 hour run without abusing any glitches (unless you seriously consider those above mentioned glitches), why has it been forced to regular any% when it could've been in the Any% glitchless cat instead of being forced to be with literal glitch exhibitions. Don't get me wrong, the times on the board are insane with well done research and I do not mean this post in any bad way. Cheers

Tere tulemast!

1. Stealing the control cube Personally I don't consider this a glitch but fox made strong arguments for banning stealing it. I believe both the quest log entry and award refer to you "assassinating" them. I will ask for his opinion again.

2. Using wells/etc This was poorly worded in the rules. The rule refers to using a well infinitely as seen here. Using wells repeatedly through normal means is allowed.

3. Followers in shoals/lincoln Normally, when you enter the shoals, followers disappear until you leave. However, there is a glitch which makes them usable. That is not allowed. By "jar" I assume you mean the temple in a bottle, which is allowed.

4. Vampire quest I see your point. Not sure why this is in the rules. I'll ask fox about it.

About categories I recall someone asking to seperate light/dark and glitchless variations. For some reason fox didn't want to seperate them which is why they're not there anymore. I will discuss this with him. As for the 7 hour run, it was submitted before the glitchless category was created. It most likely belongs in glitchless. I'll try to sort that out.

Hope that covers it. If I left something out or you're confused please ask. I will discuss the things with others and report back later.

Thanks for taking your time to clarify the questions! I might've misworded the follower part, but thankfully you covered both possible answers. See you soon on the boards!

To clarify, in glitchless you can use wells and other such things as much as you want as long as it doesn't involve the glitch mentioned before.

"Control cube is meant to be stolen." How exactly did you come to this conclusion? If you read the quest description it very clearly says kill Tolberti/Robert and once you turn the cube in, history book very clearly says Tolberti/Robert has been killed.

"Alright, vampire part is really a bug as it's not in their intended player journey and it's legitematelly broken." You seem to agree with that so why even argue that's not a glitch? You are clearly given a quest to go slay him, once again refer to the quest description and history book once you've turned the quest in.

While it's true that the game has been somewhat rushed and released in this unfortunate state, both of these cases are very much not intended to be skipped by simply stealing the cube or just visting the Wine cellar and leaving immediatelly. Therefore these are considered glitches and are against the rules for "Glitchless" category. The entire point of this category is to finish the main storyline of as intended.

As for the Light/Dark path that wasn't separated since 95% of the run would be exactly the same.

"Skipping" the vampire quest should definitely be allowed. You're not actively performing a glitch or anything like that, the developers just messed up placing the quest trigger early. Maybe the category should be renamed to "any% developer intended route". Same goes for the cube, the game mechanics are working as intended. It's a shame that some text makes it ambiguous.

Months later, after much arguing and deliberation, I've changed my stance on these issues (stealing cube and vampire quest). I've updated the category rules for any% glitchless to ban said exploits and moved the existing runs to any% for now. Not sure what to exactly do with them. Terribly sorry for this mess...

I am not runner of this game, but i heared about this... One simple question. Why? This game is deader than my grandma... So why you changed now some Rules? Just for an empty "glitchless" category? I don't get it... You just had renamed it to "No Major Glitches" like every other game......

Recently, someone made a run of MM6 and asked for a new category, bad ending NMG. However, they used an exploit where you destroy the reactor using bows enchanted with elemental damage which bypasses all resistances. In my and others opinion, that's both a glitch and not minor, so I rejected the request.

That made me reflect on the decision I made for this game. Since the tricks are somewhat similar in magnitude, to keep things consistent I had to either allow the new run under dubious rules, or change the rules for this game. I opted for the latter.

Could I ask for a ruling on item duplication using the arbiter; is to be considered a glitch for the glitchless category?

It isn't currently listed in the rules, but the rules list does say it is non-exhaustive.

No duping. I don't see how you'd benefit from that anyway.

My apologies for the two questions in quick succession, should have also asked in the earlier post.

What about blaster-haste-0-cooldown?

No duping. I don't see how you'd benefit from that anyway.

Without the wishing-well to abuse (at least as easily, and anywhere near as quickly, need to have and recast GM Protection from Magic), money may be a limiting factor. It is a very quick method for generating functionally limitless money.

If you're asking if using blaster while hasted is ok then yes, that's allowed.

Personally I never understood why people think it's a glitch. Broken as hell, sure, but that's how it should be. It's a laser gun enhanced by magic, of course the result will be outrageous.

Mr. Fox#7887 is a joke and should be removed from the boards because he believes he knows what is "developer intended" in this game right.

What an absolute joke of a situation. The first time I had a discussion about it with him in discord, the discussion went off the road right from hello because he lacked elementary politeness in a regular human greeting. He couldn't keep his cool when I was explaining the facts and my point of view regarding the aforementioned topic. When I explained thoroughly about why it shouldn't be considered as against the rules, his responses were "so why did you even start running with these rules", "if you want we can make a category just for you", "your attitude is bullshit" for not agreeing with him, "I need to summon my brain cells" because "my claims are backed on nothing" just like his own arguments (developed intended btw).

Allegedly, everything I said was nonsense. The best argument by him was "Anerag made the rules, I had nothing to do with this". He refused to acknowledge the definition of a "glitch" and just continued to talk ONLY about "developer intended" interactions because "bUt iTs iN tHe hIsToRy bOoK". NO OTHER ARGUMENTS.

If you're so keen to prove that it's developer intended, contact one of the devs and let us know that it's true. Until then, it shouldn't be considered a glitch because that is solely based on your personal opinion, backed with absolutely nothing but "iTs iN tHe hIsToRy bOoK".

I have screenshots of the conversation with the Mighty Fox saved, including independent conversations with other developers (not MM7 ofc) and asking their take on it. Mighty Fox threw some more verbal abuse at me and blocked me on discord shortly after. A few minutes later, he notified Anerag that he will step down as a mod (which he did) and said we can basically do what we want. EVERYONE besides him was on the take that it shouldn't be considered as a glitch/exploit. Now miraculously, I saw that my time has been moved to any%, MightyFox is a mod again and then there is this discussion here. Fucking hell, this is literally why no one wants to speedrun this game when it's being handled by a bombaclaat.

Kindly let us know what did the developers intended Mighty Fox :)

Looking forward to your supreme intelligence.

Not sure why you chose to bring up Fox now. It was solely my decision to change the rules, though I did consult him (and others).

If you read my earlier post you already know why I changed my mind on this. Again, I'm terribly sorry for this mess but it's what I truly believe is right.

I removed myself from the mods before because I didn't want to deal with morons like you :)

Not to fan the flames but you did just jump to conclusions and called him out on something he had no part in. If anything, you should be angry with me for being so wishy washy with the rules.

Edit: there used to be a comment from Kuningas before this one.

Not sure why the comment was removed. I get you Anerag no worries, just how another mod handled the issue is a joke. Maybe he can find other words besides derogatory ones as replies :)

One more question.

Does using the portal hireling when surrounded by monster count as a bug/glitch?

The master version of the spell says "Does not work while hostile monsters are nearby". And it enforces this rule on party members casting the spell.

The gatemaster hirelings say "I've learned to cast it at master level. I'll cast it for you up to once per day if you hire me". However, the no hostile monsters nearby limitation does not get applied to the hireling version of the spell, and so seems bugged/an-exploit. I suspect this was overlooked with the skill system change from MM6 to 7 and the extra GM rank when the code for the hireling was copied across.