I'm not a top speedrunner of this game, but I follow it rather closely, and here are my opinions about this. This was originally supposed to be a Discord PM, but I decided to post it here instead.
STK is considered by the developers to be one game (as opposed to it being several games that are STK 0.8.1, STK 0.9.3, etc.) and most people consider it to be one game as well. And if you compare 0.8.0 to 0.8.1, it's not much different - mostly just some graphical changes and a course replacement (and a tutorial). Something similar can also be said about 0.9.2 and 0.9.3. Now, 0.8.1 and 0.9 are more different, but it's still the same game with similar graphic design, most of the original music tracks (as in, music composed for this game) are still there, and of course (no pun intended), many of the courses are still there - they have changes, but they're still recognizable. And yes, there were several course replacements in the 0.9.x versions, but they followed the same theme as the old ones - city, island, jungle (and a volcano course was added as a return to a course from the oldest versions). What I mean is that STK 0.8.1, 0.9.3 is the same game, it's not a series. The leaderboard is fine, there are only 0.9.3, 0.8.1, and a bunch of misc. versions. Both receive enough attention. The actual reason nobody runs 0.8.1 is because of how hard the Gate Skip is in that version. Not to mention that it would be very disrespectful to the developers - they worked hard on a new version, only for it to get banned for speedruns.
I’m curious what the issue you’re taking about is for this game. It looks like to me the community around STK has a pretty good handle on the game’s development and has set up their LBs to accommodate the versions with major changes. The LB doesn’t look messy or anything. It doesn’t look like there’s any issue. If you have a concern, I’d definitely voice it to the mods as they’ll probably be able to offer more answers than us “outside” users.
I don’t know of any ROM hacks that change or update themselves very drastically - most will only release it when the hack is complete and not add content to it incrementally. In the off case this does happen, the LBs will usually do what STK did and create a separate category for the previous, unfinished version. A version that has simple graphical boosts it has changed that doesn’t impact gameplay won’t be tracked because it changes nothing to the gameplay.
Whatever you do, just don't ban new versions! Does every single version even deserve a new category? Are they all that much different?
If no ones going to run the old versions once new ones com out, I would basically archive them: Create a misc category with versions as subcategories
If it's not significantly different then couldn't you just do "0.9.3 - 0.9.4" as one category? I feel like that would be a better solution than arbitrarily banning the most recent version of the game.
The reason I posted the link earlier was so people could find the page easier as you never posted one not so you could ask there, that is why it links to the game page and not the page forum :). Why don't you run the other versions? :) people may follow in your footsteps.
Unfortunately I don't think there is a good solution. This is inevitably going to be a problem with running a game that's constantly being updated and changed. The only way around it is to put arbitrary restrictions on what versions are allowed (which I don't think is a good idea), or to make the version a variable instead of different categories and put all the runs together on the same board (which might not be a good idea depending on how drastic the version differences are).
In any case, you're really probably better off talking about this with people who actually run the game. I don't really know much about the game and I don't run it so it's hard for me to provide valuable input on how to handle the situation.
First of all, I'm sorry if this post has any flaws or contradictions, or if I forgot to say something. I'm tired right now and can't think properly.
"All versions are very similar, and the new ones that comes out won't be that much different either as far as I know." Then why divide one game into a series, if you know that it's pretty much the same thing?
Now, time for my point. If you ban 0.9.5 when that comes out, everyone is going to grind in 0.9.4 for some time, and eventually it will stop being interesting with old runners getting good times, and newcomers being put off by the old version requirement. With new versions being allowed, new runners will have more desire to get into STK.
My suggestion is to smash together the versions into 2 version categories (or whatever they're called) - "0.8.1 - [Last version with the difficult Gate Skip]" and "[First version with the easy Gate Skip] - 0.9.3". (If there are other substantial difficulty differences in a speedrun besides the Gate Skip, then tell me and we'll think some more about it) That would also make people investigate which is the fastest version in each of the two categories, and which version actually made the Gate Skip easier.
What I mean is that for instance, there are a bunch of versions of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and people only speedrun the fastest one and OoT3D (because 3D is a game with some unique glitches that make it a pretty different speedgame), and no one cares about 1.1, 1.2, English versions, and so on. In this case, having a good Any% run in 0.8.1 is much more difficult and much more impressive, and if all versions are joined into one, then that would make UbuntuJackson's effort look like nothing, so I don't see any reason not to use the method used for other games, only with the easy/difficult Gate Skip version split (no, not like a timer split). And I know that I said that prioritizing an old version for marathon runs or the leaderboard is disrespectful to the developers, but besides replacements and additions of 1-2 tracks per version, there's not that much of a difference in the later versions (after all, the version numbers indicate that the later versions are minor releases, not big ones like 0.9.0). 1-2 different tracks, in my opinion, aren't enough to make a ton of different version categories.
This is a unique situation, the speed change between 0.9.3 and 0.9.4 happened as a direct result of our speedruns. Our videos have been posted directly on their github saying "we need to fix this!" In a small way, we have helped to make the game more fun for the thousands of casual players. We really should feel proud of our contributions. (Edit: also, multiplayer is going to be much fairer without all these obscure tricks. Remember, multiplayer is being tested right now, this will be the biggest new player/runner influx we've ever seen.)
0.9.4 is about 30 minutes slower than 0.9.3, They cannot be combined. Major versions are defined by major changes, removing speedrun shortcuts is not a "major change" from their perspective, but from our perspective it is the biggest change between versions that has ever happened to the game.
0.9.4 still includes Gate Skip, there is no good reason for them to patch it as it doesn't affect multiplayer in any way. 0.9.4 will be actively run as an any%, the other categories might get less love, but I'll still run them, so at least the board wont be empty.
Add 0.9.4, but set 0.9.3 to show as the default category. (0.9.3 - 0.9.4 - 0.8.1) The game has been patched and fixed to make a better casual player experience, it's a better game, and we are respecting that version by not running it, the game is "too good to run".
There is a SITE BUG which is preventing the 0.9.2 IL's from moving to misc, this fact is the only issue that should have been discussed outside of our own game forum IMHO.
@Alistair_Findlay "Add 0.9.4, but set 0.9.3 to show as the default category. The game has been patched and fixed to make a better casual player experience, it's a better game, and we are respecting that version by not running it, the game is "too good to run"."
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. Is running a game disrespectful somehow? As far as I know, people speedrun games because they like them, not to show disrespect. And I've never said that not running that version is disrespectful. I think the developers expect most speedrunners to stay on the old versions, but maybe someone will come and do a run of 0.9.4, just for fun and memes. Whereas banning new versions restricts the entire community to one person's opinion that most people probably aren't gonna agree with.
"These should be the full game categories: 0.9.4, 0.9.3, 0.9.2/1/0, 0.8.x, Android."
Did something change other than the gate skip? And in what version was the gate skip made easier, by the way?
You're assuming a false dichotomy. If something is respected it doesn't mean that other things are not respected. If not running a version is respect for it's quality, it doesn't mean that running a version is disrespect for its lack of quality. All I was saying is "0.9.4 is good for casuals which means that speedrunners don't like it, and that's okay." You were saying that it is bad to ban new versions, and I was agreeing in an obtuse and needlessly florid manner, like I am right now. I spent two hours trying to decide how to re-explain this, I should have been less verbose in the first place. I still have no idea what is going on ((
There is no "maybe", I will come and do multiple runs of 0.9.4 for fun and memes, I thought I made that clear. I mightn't even run 0.9.3 anymore. I don't care if it's slow. It's a different speedgame now. Same game, different speedgame.
I could have ran two expert% runs in the time I spent thinking about this. This discussion is wasted effort. It's fine as it is.
This is how it should be: All new versions will be added. All actively run versions will be shown by default. All inactive versions will be set as miscellaneous. All of you are going to stop talking and start speedrunning.
I'm not sure about gate skip. The only thing I know is that @UbuntuJackson knows. He always knows lol.