Will try to keep it somewhat short.

I've been one of first people to bring Doom to srcom, when this website was in its infancy, but as time has passed it seems that decesion has not been entirely correct. Classic Doom representation on srcom is quite lackluster and ideally shouldn't exist. Back in 2019 I did nuke classic LBs, which I then regretted doing as my course of action was quite bad (more on that here - https://www.speedrun.com/doom1/thread/fspli)

Since then I've been trying to maintain it to at least be somewhat representative of DSDA (https://dsdarchive.com/ - actual hub of doom speedruns), but it was far from perfect. Most of actual classic doom speedrunners don't think that maintaining these pages has any worth and as a result I've been mostly carrying quest of verification and handling all this stuff mostly alone.

And quite honestly - I can't anymore. I don't think it is worth it as for srcom there a much better representation of doom speedruns - https://www.speedrun.com/doom_unity which doesn't go against classic boards as it is quite simply put a "different game" and guys at moderation there have been doing fantastic job, making it one of srcom's most popular boards.

So here is where I say goodbye to classic boards myself as I leave Doom series in hands of Meta and THiEF_HD209. As for classic boards (Ultimate Doom, Doom II, Final Doom and various wad/mod boards that got created by various people) I would wish that they were closed, as I think that best representation for Classic Doom should be akin to games like Halo, where actual Halo runs are not on this website, due to various issues (mostly technical in doom's case, for more on this topic - watch my video from thread that I linked if you really care). But I won't oppose these leaderboards being maintained, as, for example, Cyberdemon is still here and have been doing some moderation from time to time.

It's been fun and I don't regret running them for so long, but at this point I just don't care. I leave future of classic doom boards in hands of others. Whether they will be locked or continue to exist is not up to me.

I applaud to those of you who found classic doom speedrunning here and then moved to DSDA, there are some truly great runners out there. And if you just were doing run for boards I'll still say to you "Thanks" as you kept me entertained and were playing on of my favorite games ever, which in all honesty is great.

But ye, will repeat myself - if you want to run Classic Doom - please try to get into DSDA or move to Doom Unity boards here.

Tezur0

Hello everyone. Now that ~5 days have passed, we decided to open leaderboards as most of this seemed pretty straightforward + game is short enough for those interested to play it.

Rules didn't change much from Serious Sam 4, as it is essentially the same engine and all the memes are the same.

The only significant difference lies in ILs or loading levels from menu during a run. More about that read here - https://pastebin.com/rkzYBKgF

As with SS4 - currently there's no difficulty settings for any categories, if it becomes a necessity - we can discuss that in discord.

Have fun!

Hello everyone. I was modded here after initial moderation "crew" of this leaderboard has been unmodded or just went away. As moderator for Doom series on srcom I'll be straight with you here: this leaderboard was created without my notice and there's no way it would've gone past me for few reasons:

• This is unofficial mod for doom (of which there are obvious thousands) and doesn't belong to speedrun.com due to being impossible to maintain consistent with dsdarchive.org (which still is and always was main speedrunning hub for doom).
• Main doom speedrunning hub is still dsda/doomworld, so creating alternative leaderboards elsewhere always poses simple question: "What is source of truth?" And due to this reason Ultimate Doom and Doom II on srcom have very limited amount of categories, for A ) simplicity; B ) consistency.
• While there are few other wads on srcom (like scythe), their support as of right now has ceased and their future is being discussed with website moderation crew.

It is important to note that creating one leaderboard means that others are allowed aswell, but in case of doom and general modifications - it just goes for too long and there's already a website that hosts all the runs with universal set of rules (which I can see breached here from simply reading this 3-line ruleset and resulting times). And having this inconsistency across multiple instances of these leaderboards is simply non-productive.

If you still want to run nuts.wad - have at it: https://dsdarchive.com/wads/nuts. Submissions to dsda happen through doomworld forums by posting your demo files in corresponding thread https://www.doomworld.com/forum/37-doom-speed-demos/ (note that non-WR submissions go into its own PB thread).

For a time being no runs will be accepted for this leaderboard until it is decided what to do with it. I'm open to your questions.

Thread for future game ruleset/category related changes.

Leaderboards are open with any% being the only category so far. Right now there's no reason to do more categories as that's the only one that has any progress made.

Livesplit asl file is in Resources section. Supports autosplitting and load removing.

IL timing rules might change a bit, due to how poorly IGT is implemented in this game.

Current ruleset isn't all that convoluted. In fact it is pretty much limited by what game allows to have. If there are any questions regarding rules - feel free to ask here or in Discord.

For any rulechanges or new categories there will be a Locked moderator-only forum thread.

Enjoy!

I guess I'll just link here, that bethesda unity port of doom engine runs are being tracked here: https://www.speedrun.com/doom_unity

Please don't submit your ILs on that version here.

Hi, Zero-Master asked his episodic demos to not be hosted here, so for future reference - don't submit it on his behalf, thanks! Want to see his and other doom runs go to https://dsdarchive.com/

Hey everyone, I'm currently busy with personal stuff, so there is a natural line of submissions queued right now. I ask you to be patient as I will verify all that as soon as I get spare minute. This might also be the case for upcoming week or two, after that everything should be back to "normal".

In a meantime I recommend you practice more and start doing actual runs for actual leadearboards - https://dsdarchive.com/ Bear in mind that recent flood of "low-effort" demos lately is unprecedented as people generally weren't posting their PBs, and mostly were posting WRs only. So if you feel like WR is out of your reach but you did your best - post it in corresponding thread. Note that PB thread is a SEPARATE thread on doomworld.

Have a nice day, stay healthy.

Since PC doom speedruns for srcom isn't actual hub of doom speedrunning I thought about removing "Discord" link from the left and putting in down here. It is small thing, but at least I HOPE you will read this post before going anywhere and as a result won't ask questions about srcom there. If you have them - leave them here. If you have questions about doom speedruns - ask there, BUT read #about_this_discord and #help first. Much appreciate that. https://discord.gg/zNxGGKQ

I know many probably won't care (and probably nobody checks this game at this time), but when you do ILs game always takes into consideration how much ammo you had, how many nukes total you have etc. It even applies bonuses that you get for collecting all nukes (double kick power for easy nukes, half damage for medium and special gun for hard). Should we restrict ILs to savefile that has no nukes? Or should we just let anything go? None of that is relevant to fullgame, since you always play on new savefile.

I'd propose making loadless timer main timing method, since it is more consistent. That's pretty much it :v)

Okay, this seem to be a problem at the moment and I kinda have a different take here, so let me go all out.

While speedruncom doom page is merely a small fracture of doom speedruns it would nice to understand what and why is being done. Also for reason of this actually being related to doom speedrunning in general some rules have to be applied in one way or another.

As of right now demos aren't a necessity, however they help moderators to verify your runs on many levels (sourceport, actual stats, input check for weird behavior, such as auto sr50 and so on). Also by creating a demo you create an actual legit entry into actual doom leaderboards, doesn't matter if the category that you run marked as Other in dsda.

While I do understand that some of you might be unwilling to go extra step, I'd have to politely ask you - record demos for your runs AND only use listed sourceports. It is generally accepted practice. You wouldn't go to, let's say, GTA leaderboards and then submit run with framelimiter off (banned by rules, if you wonder) and then provide an excuse on why it should stay there and why it won't affect leaderboards.

Many games require you to go extra step, like downpatching or upgrading to certain version, which is especially annoying with console games. And the only reason why I can see demos - an extra step - being annoying to you - not doing that before. It has way more positives than you might even think of:

1. It doesn't require any processing power. Which allows you to do runs on shittiest PCs possible and then still get it to perfect quality with 2)
2. It can be converted into a video with prboom features. Which allows for whatever visual quality standard exists in current day and age, be that 2k,8k,256k or something else.
3. It can be studied with TAS tools, such as xdre, where you can learn what you do wrong, learn how to adjust your inputs. Greatest example I can name is current D2ALL WR-holder Looper. He does study his failed attempts during stream which is extemely important on that high-end performance.
4. And then it also does provide all the info about your run, more than you can imagine, which legitemises your run.

If you aren't getting top time, then I personally really don't care for how you record your run to these leaderboards. But if you manage to get 1st place in whatever category you run - having a demo not only would contribute greatly to everyone, but will also help to prove how exactly do you got that first place. Also if you are capable of doing actual top-tier runs - why not legitemise them by community standards? Make you stand out. Before ILs were removed, some new runners, who appeared from speedruncom leaderboards got actual WRs in categories that stood for decades!

That isn't made for leaderboards to make you feel annoyed. That is being made for leaderboards to be 100% valid. You can still record your videos and submit them to provide an easy way of "consumind media". But please, do record demos. While currently it isn't a necessity on speedruncom - it will become eventually.

Now with that out of the way, let me quickly address the m8 confusion. I've been getting runs without m8 in a past, and even though I think it is quite clear written in a rules, that map 8 must be finished unless stated otherwise, it isn't quite clear why that is the thing to some people, even though, yet again, it is explained in a rules, that "if your run doesn't use saves/loads then final In-Game time - sum of level times (can be seen at the end of a level, certain sourceports do count sum for you aswell) except map 8 UNLESS stated otherwise by subcategory rules (Such Compete-N rules for that, we not gonna bother, even though you can time it with certain sourceports)". This has been a historical issue, which ONLY exists in Compete-N entries. In that case it really is Ultimate Doom only. Back in a day, old sourceports were going to intermission screen after m8, as result it wasn't possible to get actual time. Even though it isn't a case anymore, Ultimate Doom is Compete-N "entry" and to avoid any confusion on what's considered WR by community and what's not, we just apply that ruleset here for consistensy. That is why m8 have to be completed even if it doesn't count to your final time. (Maybe dsdarchive will fix that issue, by splitting UD runs into CN and other entries, I have no clue).

I'm not gonna lock this thread, you can ask questions about demos or m8 related stuff here.

Without further ado - We are removing the IL leaderboards.

--- Reasoning ---

1. The speedrun.com boards are incomplete

• Example picked at random: E1M4 Max has 2 entries on speedrun.com, but 36 on dsda

2. Their existence leads to confusion. There is an expectation that they are the source of truth when it comes to doom speedrunning. As mentioned above, this is not true.

3. Authenticity - doom speedrunning has various important requirements to prove the authenticity of runs. Among them, using compatible source ports and recording demos. These are fundamental in the community and the speedrun.com boards aren't really set up to serve this purpose.

4. It's a poor investment to expend lots of effort maintaining a board that is actually a mirror of another board, but simultaneously only a tiny subset.

5. The speedrun.com boards are missing lots of relevant categories (as a necessary result of 4)

--- Summary ---

The speedrun.com page is nice for casual players or as a landing page for people coming in from google or elsewhere on the site, but not really the place for serious competition.

Runners interested in working on ILs would be best served by joining the doom speedrunning community proper, either in the discord or on the doomworld forums.

ILs for Ultimate Doom/Doom II/Plutonia/TNT can be found on corresponding pages on http://doomedsda.us/ (and eventually on https://dsdarchive.com/ as it is still under construction).

This thread will represent all rulechanges made to game, so that it is clear why and what chages over time.

This thread will contain description of changes to leadeboards and reasoning behind those changes.

This thread will contain information on chages with Ultimate Doom, Doom II and Final Doom (PC) leaderboards.

If you want to check if your game runs as intended post sample of video here. Read https://www.speedrun.com/gta2/thread/5rf9x/1#qi4b9 first. Unrelated posts will get deleted.

Rules were written too poorly, so starting from now on, gonna be writing main rule changes here. Similar to other games that already have that log.

I have a serious question, since I'm REALLY tired of losing runs to some dumb enemies dispawning and then reapearing and blasting me off. WHY do we run on hard? There seem to be no reason to do that as every trick is doable on easy. It only adds frustration to certain parts of a run (General, Escape the Jungle, Save the DEA). If there is no real reason why it is like that I'd like to push a vote to change it to easy. I really like running this game, but losing runs just because enemies who can oneshot me deside to disappear and reappear, or take 5 shotgun shots in a face and not die to then blast me off in one hit - that is not fun, nor it makes game more challenging - it is just dumb. That game has some randomness and still can kill you on easy, but lower levels of insane frustration will definetely help. Really want to hear what other people think, and also learn why hard is the choice.

On some point that thread might appear in more games than just Sam2 and Revolution. Idea is the same as with revolution - keep track of all major and minor rulechanges, to keep it clear for everyone WHY and WHAT gets changed.

Idea brought up by TheMaster & mr.deagle. This thread will represent all rulechanges made to game, so that it is clear why and what chages over time. It makes for people who wonder "why is this rule a thing", "why is that allowed", "why is that disallowed" to find answers relatively quick without bothering every single person imaginable.