Hi everyone!
@Waifu mentioned the possibility of a "no-intro category" on the SRT thread and I feel like this is something that could be discussed on a different thread, since it's a subject that more people might be interested.
The way I see it, the initial 5-6 minute intro (inside Ethan's House and then walking through the snow) is pretty much a on rails section, and I don't feel like it would add that much to the competitive leaderboards, unless at some point a skip is found for this.
Waifu mentions on the other thread about making a save on the moment you get the knife. On the other hand, I feel like this could be made on the moment that Ethan gets down a slope (right before finding the dead horse), since from that moment on, you can explore the houses and such.
Anyway, the reason I'm creating this is to get a feeling about what the community thinks about this. I watched a bit of Super Mario Sunshine speedruns for some time, and I know that they created a save file that starts some minutes into the game because you have to go through a quickly playable section and then a long cutscene.
In RE8 case, there's no cutscene, it's all gameplay, but as I've mentioned, is pretty much a "hold W" gameplay with not that much to do.
I'd love to hear other opinions on this!
Personally I would love a no intro category. It's 6 minutes of walking followed by 4 minutes of almost autoscroller on VoS difficulty (Might be different on other difficulties). Would be great if you could start the run where you first meet the hag, facing the red gate. Since the run will most likely be timed RTA you wouldn't need to mess around resetting the IGT.
Would love to hear other opinions on this too!
It could start in the church and with the inventory that you got in the autoscroller with the lycans and please be on console as well
I like the sound of a no intro if it's possible. However I'm not entirely sure about starting it when you first meet the hag. I mean as far as standard is concerned, there's a lot of items and supplies and potential Lei that can be grabbed in the autoscroller sequence in the village. It is unfortunate that its just 4 minutes of trying to survive but in my opinion its 4 minutes of potential supply/money routing that you get for free.
The run starting when you get down the slope or when you pick up the knife seems like a really viable option for me, it cuts out walking simulator and starts you off right when you get into the action.
Another note is, im not sure how the save file works or whats easier, but instead of the knife start you could start the game in the basement after getting the knife, the run then begins with you moving forward and activating the first fight.
no intro would be a phenominal option, personally i think no gameplay that has routing descisions should be skipped ie starting when you grab the knife there is an autosave there, the problem remains that altering save files is not possible at the moment it invalidates your whole save folder the only option to d something like that. This leave the only option the creation of a save tool to create a custom save there or soemthing. I would be willing to settle for a save at the church tho if thats the last resort
As an example, if I start a new game and go until the knife (where it autosaves), and then upload my savefolder and you get it, will you be able to use it? Or there's something related to the steam user account that prevents this from happening?
@TheCinephile that was what i tried before unfortunately the save data is encrypted and tied to eitehr creation time or the steam of the creator most liekly both, you cant even replace the save data with alternate saves from your own folder it doesnt recognize them and it can and sometimes will invalidate your whole save folder causing the game to launch in a state as if you never launched it before. my solution to this would be for someone to create something with cheat engine to manually create a save without having to use a typwriter i know this to be possible in other games like halo mcc hense why i asked the srt forum
No Intro is a bad idea for this game. All it does is make a split leaderboard because of a few people’s desire to not have a few extra minutes on the run.
The real issue I have is that this would split the leaderboard for no good reason. There’s nothing that will change about the entirety of the run from any decided save point forward, so there’s no reason to make a whole set of other categories that will be doing the exact same run with a few minutes of the start missing. Having double the categories that add nothing new to the run, because it is literally the exact same run, is a terrible idea when it’s just because “I don’t like the opening/movement section that lasts for a few minutes.” If there were real reasons to do it then it becomes something to look at but, legit this is just a few minutes of playing the game. If we’re going to make more categories for the exact same run for absolutely no good reason, then people need to not get mad if console runners want a certain type of platform category split with legit categories (not a filter) because of actual differences from the variations in how the game works on the different consoles.
This game already got rid of cutscenes for us, so we’re now talking about getting rid of gameplay sections. If that section is something that is so egregious that it needs to be removed then are there other areas that should be taken out as well just because? Should we remove the Heisenberg fight as well because of the major scripting portion where you actually don’t have any gameplay but are forced to watch? Should we remove the Lady D fight because in many of what I assume will be categories you’re standing and waiting for her to get around the tower with little to do after a few shots? Should we remove the House of Beneviento because it is effectively just holding W with a few things to do throughout most of it? Should we remove all of Luiza’s house because it is almost completely holding W the whole time while waiting for skip cutscene prompts? This whole notion of deleting part of the game from the run because of a few minutes of movement is no less ridiculous than contemplating any of these other scenarios.
Before RE3R and RE7 get brought up as reasons to support doing this, I’ll say my bit on those because I know they’ve already been mentioned in other places. RE7 has a No Guest House run because the intro is over 20 minutes long and you have control of Ethan for half of that time, tbh probably less than half, with the rest of it being unskippable cutscenes. You don’t even get control of Ethan until 2 minutes and 42 seconds IGT. We had this idea for a community meme category where we got to skip all of that. It’s a meme because we are just deleting the first 1/3 of the game making it the least legit speedrun of RE7 with an official time (hence it being a category extension). We had a lot of support for creating it though because it sounds great, but then no one ran it. We made it much easier and more accessible to run, opened the ability to run it to console players as well, and saw a just a few new runners go to it, but it’s still barely run (in a time when we are having 100+ submissions per month for RE7 mind you). RE3R, I remember the debates about why it should be removed at launch. It ranged literally from “you don’t even play the game during this section” to “you have to do so much that it hurts my hands” and every type of reason in between. RE3R put out this mode and had 67 yes votes out of 73 votes total and less than 1/3 of that number of yes votes actually run it and a third of those categories are empty with 2/3 of the categories having 2 people or less. Granted, it has only been around for 2 months, but you always end up with a lot of people saying they’ll run the game if it only had this cut out, then they don’t. This will be especially true for a game like Village where there is no real reason to do this.
Tldr; It’s ridiculous to split the leaderboards for absolutely nothing being different except removing a few minutes of actual gameplay when there isn’t a reason besides that some people don’t like it. If we do make a no-intro, then where do we draw the line in what is acceptable to remove because you could make the same arguments for other parts of the game. In other games within this series, when this type of category has been made, it is not run by many people despite how many people say they would run it.
nothing is lost by having an additonal cateogory or filter, if people want it then let them have it not everyone wants to waste 6 minutes every reset holding W. people have lives and jobs if you fail the intro in VOS then you will be resetting 6 minutes every single time potentially leading to wasting a half hour over 3 tries. There is no downside in having an additional category or filter for those who want it. Most dedicated runners when they grow tired of the reset will want something like it evenetually just like in re3 remake, almost none of the top runners run full game anymore because the intro just makes it egregious, especially on inferno. as long as you dont skip any meaningful descision making or execution than i dont see a reason to contest it. as far as consoles go well depending on the way its set up they may be shit out of luck but its not liek that is anything new, console runners are already going to be fucked with pay to win since it will be RTA, plenty of games have tech like this exclusive to PC. again though its just an alternate option you can always just chose to run the full game with the intro if you want. as far as applying that to other sections, i think you are reaching. people just want to play the game without having to hold w for 6 minutes i dont think anyone actually wants to skip any portions of the game besides the initial intro, its a slippery slope argument that i think is weak. besides logistically those other options are probably not possible
also i would like to poitn out that every capcom game has about a bazilion categories so no matter what its gonna look like a hot mess so may as well get something good from it.
as someone who has a life and a job I can say I don't give a crap about 6 mins. If you are to busy to reset over 6 mins then you are to busy to speedrun. Resetting is apart of running stop being a baby about it.
if we are going on that subject then, Mods have lives an jobs too and don't want to deal with this crap so you can save your precious 6 mins but no, no one thinks of the mods right?
Edit: and just to clarify, ZGL and I have this on both Console and PC.
hard disagree. shortly put, nobody will run it and we are going down a rabbit hole of "i dont like X section, please mod it out and make me a board for it." this would create unnecessary work for mods and accomplish nothing simply because you cant handle a 5 minute intro.
what ZGL said is completely on point and a very wise take from someone who has dealt with this exact situation in the previous title.
i'll TLDR this since i know it might take a minute to read this and since people have lives and jobs, i cant be fucking with that.
TLDR; no, its 5 fucking minutes.
I'm a father of 2. Work full time. I am homeschooling my kids during a pandemic. I moderate a leaderboard with 100+ submissions a month and we keep queue under 10 days most of the time. I spend time with family and friends. I also speedrun. I understand people have lives.
We're talking about a few minutes of actual gameplay that you want to skip for no real reason, just that you don't like it. That "reasoning" literally could be translated to I don't want this part of the game for reason X so a whole new category needs to be created on the leaderboards because of this for anything that anyone wants. If this was because of some serious issue with the game or some other legitimate reason besides "I don't like it" then I'd be all for it. But instead, you want to split the leaderboard and have the same exact run twice because you don't like that there's a section of the game a few minutes long that you have to walk through.
all i see is 2 console runners who it wont effect, complaining they wont be able to do it (potentially). and its 6 minutes every reset, that adds up really fast you of all people should know that. once again its simply an option that only requires initial work from the moderators then submissions would be exactly the same as before, although it doesnt really matter until a method of doing so is resolved then we can hold some sort of vote, though if its only possible on pc i would advice only pc runners can vote
LMAO.
"sorry gamers, but unless you have a keyboard that makes clicky noises and lights up, your opinion doesnt matter"
you're out of your mind, man
well if they cant run the category why would their vote matter? i only said if the no intro happens to only work on pc, its not an attack on console runners
it would be the same thing if it was a argument over fps caps console cant run at higher than whatever the default is so they shouldnt have a say in that either it doesnt affect them
i believe the opinion of two people who have extensive experience modding recent RE titles [and no, not just RE7] are very valid. console/pc, it shouldn't matter. it's the community who's expressing valid concerns.
and yes, as a pc runner, a no intro category is not a good idea due to everything ZGL eloquently expressed above.
this thread was to gauge interest from what I saw, not a vote yet.
ZGL and Yossy have real mod experiences from this and could speak to the issues it would and has caused in the past and you took that as "console runner so it wont affect you".
they're telling you what's likely to happen if we decide to split the boards for no reason at all. it's not even remotely closed to an actually decent reason, it's just because you dont want to do the 5 minute intro.
Literally yesterday you made a post about what constitutes a good speedrun, and the whole "significantly different categories" part of your post seems lost on you today when you are advocating for an identical category minus an intro because of... laziness? Idk. It's a few minutes of actually playing a game, not a bunch of unskippable cutscenes, not a bunch of game breaking glitches or something that we shouldn't have to deal with, but actually playing the game for a few minutes. There is no reason to do no intro over that.
Edit cause I don't think this needs another post: First, I run on PC too, it's on my profile here on sr.c, I prefer console because it usually has more parity so you don't have as much pay to win, but that seems to be gone with this game so ???
Additionally, it does make things worse on mods, every category increases the submission load on them and having been a moderator at launch for the last 2 RE releases, I know they're going to have enough on their plates without needless extra categories that DO NOTHING besides appease some instant gratification you need by not having the intro.
Listen, having to put Rose in her crib, having to walk down the forest extremely slowly, and having to hold off the Lycans and Urias is very annoying, but I do not think that handful of minutes really warrant a category just yet, ffs the game's categories are not even up yet. Maybe in the future it might get added to the category extensions, but first I think the regular runs should be optimized before making new categories.
regular runs will take infinetely longer to optomize because the run will be bogged down in low execution W holding, and yes significantly differing categories ie VOS, casual, standard, and hardcore. I dont see why you all are so opposed to options, i say we just wait and see if anyone can come up with a viable method of actually doing so then the community can decide from there, the moderators can obviously decide how that is handled. this is all predicated on the assumption that a solution will actually show its self wich it may not, all i know is that if it wont i definetely will enjoy the run much less and many people will drop the run because of the egrigious intro
