Hello there,

I'm making this post because I just realized I never edited the rules to this game after I became mod of it months ago, so it still had the same ruleset one of the previous mods had on it. Basically I was thinking of making the rules start from selecting the file and ending on last input, which would be after the upgrade screen is done after defeating Mario/Bowser and Waluigi. The timing when I picked up this game a year ago was that it started on confirming your name and ended on final input, but I feel like this new ruleset would be better for both the in game timer and better for RTA runs too. Unfortunately with these new rules, you can't name your character what you want and just have to go with what's the fastest thing to do there, so hopefully everyone's alright with that. What do you all think of this?

Also here's a little bit about the in game timer for this game. It seems to start from selecting your file and end once the credits hit, but doesn't discount loads or if it does then it's very minor and I haven't noticed it. One problem with using it as the main timing method though is that after you win the Island Open, you're forced back to the main menu, where the in game timer doesn't run since you're not in the file that has the IGT you're using for the run. These 2-3 seconds of not being in the file are counted in RTA but obviously not in the IGT, but are still a part of the run. My point is I was thinking of keeping RTA as the main timing method, but with the timing rules I'm imposing the IGT will be a bit more accurate at least for every run. If someone wants to do some trial runs with these rules and try to beat their PBs with them, that would be lovely. If IGT proves to be a bit better or more accurate, then I'll move to have that be the main timing method.

Let me know what you think about all of this. Opinions are welcome for everything about this game.

The issue with changing the rules your way is that all the actual runs would be kinda obsolete. Even if I agree that your rules would be more precise since we define when to start the timer and when to stop it exactly, which wasn't the case before (personnally I would start the timer after confirming my name and end it after the last point against Mario. Which was fine but not really a traditionnal way to do compared to other speedruns)

So if the other players don't have any problem with their run being "nullified", I guess I don't have any either, I can re-run it.

Now with your point with IGT timing. Is the fact that we have to go in the menu at some point really is an issue ? I mean it really is for a short time, and it wouldn't have any major impact I think. Plus the IGT really is more accurate according to me, we can verify with the actual runs : Some people like Zyphir really has little to no difference between IGT and RTA and some other (the majority) have like one minute difference. Adding the fact that there are different platforms, and the use of emulators, I think we can say that the IGT offers the most precise rankings. So I think we need to think about whether the fact that we have to go back in the menu is such a problem or not.

(Sorry if I made some mistakes, my english isn't really perfect ^^')

Your English is still pretty good and I get what you mean :>

I'm down to retime runs if need be to accommodate the rules if agreed upon. I'm a big advocate for final input on speedruns for timing them. To me it makes sense since that is truly finishing the run. You don't need to do anything else afterwards so the game is truly done. On final point you have to still go through some things before being done and I'm not a fan of that. i could deal with it if not agreed upon but that's what I'd like personally. As for the starting point, if we do agree upon starting on file select, starting your timer on confirming your name won't work because IGT starts on selecting the file, so it would just lose time to do anything but get through that as fast as possible, so I think overall that would just be better to do, even if it means losing custom file names.

I know Gen 2 Pokemon has a similar problem with going back to the main menu. They defeat the Elite Four, are forced back to the main menu, then go and complete Kanto until Red. Pokemon speedruns are notorious for going by IGT, but I know there's been some discussion recently on changing to RTA because of that forced menu not being counted there too (i'm friends with a lot of people in the community). You can theoretically just go away for a long time and come back and finish the run.

If we go with RTA, despite the differences between console and emulator, this would completely cut out any doubt of this and keep it all together. I feel like the differences between emulator and console aren't that bad to warrant the immediate switch to IGT in this case. If there's evidence that emulator is way slower than console, then switching to IGT would be a great idea. If it's faster, then more discussion on the legitimate-ness of emulator for runs needs to be had. IMO if an emulator is faster than console, then it shouldn't be allowed for serious runs. But as it stands, I think RTA would be overall better for the game.

(Sorry for my english ^^ and sorry too i've not understood everything concerning the discussion)

Ouch, run rejected (and all the others runs) because the rules changed a little, it's pretty sad :/ .

Personnaly i don't look the IGT almost. For me only the RTA is important i think, because we can see the IGT is not representative, because it's changing a lot for the differents speedrunners . And for everyone, the IGT is more rather than the RTA. It does not make sense.

So, concerning the new rules, why not we can try like that even if I'm not understand what does it change in finality. Like i said, i don't care about the IGT personnaly, so, it's not an interesting changement for me.

Sorry if i have an opinion different ^^ . Whatever, if the rules changed, i can re-run it, i can make an effort (I just need a little more precisions when start and end the timer precisely, and it's ok).

For finish, i have a suggestion but it's radical : delete the IGT for everyone, because if it's too hard to make a thing "fair", and it's seems to be, the IGT become useless. I don't think the new rules completely solve the problem.

I'm glad I checked the forums cause I was really confused that the rules and runs didn't line up at all lol. If you're going to stick to these rules, I suggest adding a fixed "penalty" to the existing runs, as if they had gone as fast as possible in the two areas they didn't time. So even tho they did spend time naming their character etc, don't penalise them for that as it's impossible to predict future rule changes.

E.g. Add: 8 seconds for the starting 'intro', and 10 seconds for the last exp addition for a total of 18 seconds to all runs using older timing method.

So what are the rules? I'll start running so I want to know.

Just one question: I have to record but can I use my emulator's recording system?