Category cleanup?
5 months ago
Pennsylvania, USA
ModeradorTheTaraStark
She/Her, They/Them
5 months ago

A few suggestions to clean up the boards a little bit:

  • "any%" and "All Levels (Boss) (No Bonus)" are the same category. It should be possible to combine these and have "All Levels (Boss) (No Bonus)" display as the new default category. (I know "any%" is a fun name and many boards use it, but other games in similar situations with potentially duplicative boards have abandoned it for clarity's sake.)
  • The "Bonus" filter could be renamed to "Bonus Race" - in the English version of the game, Speedrunning mode refers to these levels as "Races," so that would help clarify for newer runners.
  • "All Levels" category rules could use the same language as what's on the checkboxes for clarity. For example:

Play the Speedrun mode with "Whole game" selected, "Include bosses" on, "Include races" off, and "Include apocalypse" off.

Finally (and I know this one might be a long shot and goes against the "streamlining" thing I was just talking about, but:

  • Add an "Apocalypse" "No Apocalypse" option for the "All Levels" board (alternatively, filters could be named "Base Levels" and "Base + Apocalypse", which is the usual convention for categories with a base levels mode and added post-game content)

Thoughts?

Editado por o autor 5 months ago
Singapore

"Base" levels might be called "Normal" levels, I generally think that "All Levels" should have bosses and bonus races opt out but not for APO levels to follow the category name's goal of completing all levels without distinct levels like bosses and bonus races.

Rhône-Alpes, France

I changed some stuff that was suggested :

  • Bonus has been renamed to "Bonus race" and "No bonus race" for clarity

  • "All Levels" category rules now uses the description @TheTaraStark provided for clarity as well

  • Added "Apocalypse/No Apocalypse" as a variable for "All Levels" category

It's true that I like the "any%" category name because it really is the minimum content to beat the game and see the credits, but yeah it's a duplicate with "All Levels (no bonus race) (bosses)" so maybe we should remove the any% category and change the default run as you suggested. Should I do it ? (If yes I will move the current any% runs to the correct category of course)

I prefer calling the non-Apocalypse levels "Normal" levels as well since they are called like that in the menu UI when you are in apocalypse mode. ("Normal Levels" and "Normal + Apocalypse" would work as filters I think)

Regarding on what should be on or off by default I'm not really sure we want to put apocalypse on by default for the moment as no one is running this specific category yet but it's true that since it's called "All Levels" it makes sense to put it on by default as well, so I don't really know.

Editado por o autor 5 months ago
Pennsylvania, USA
ModeradorTheTaraStark
She/Her, They/Them
5 months ago

I would double-check those category rules - some of them appear to be attached to the wrong category variations.

With regards to any%: it doesn't technically trigger the credits in speedrun mode, which is explicitly required in the category rules. Like I said, it sounds fun, but even the venerated SM64 doesn't have an any% category - they have filters for # of stars and platform, and that's it. Forcing an "any%" in there would be bad for organization.

We can keep informally calling "All Levels Boss On Races Off Apocalypse Off" any% as a community (I know I I'll keep calling it that informally), but formally, having duplicate categories on the board is pretty bad for organization's sake.

I would def leave apocalypse off by default, as well as bosses on by default and bonuses off. This would make the thing we call "any%" the first thing people see when they come here, as a nod to it being the way most ppl will see the credits first.

Finally, if we really want a formal "%" category... we could invent something fun. Something short and memeworthy. Kind of like Super Mario Odyssey's nipple%, Spyro the Dragon's Cheat%, Crash Team Racing's SKR%, etc. But a new category discussion probably deserves its own separate thread

Ampo74 curtiram isso
Pennsylvania, USA
ModeradorTheTaraStark
She/Her, They/Them
5 months ago

Only other solution I can think of is reducing the number of modes... using filters to split into 6 different boards (four of which only differ by one or two levels) seems like a lot, and could lead to a lot of fractionalizing and trophy-hunting.

My proposal in that world would be "any%" (category rules state normal worlds only, bosses on, bonus races off) and "All Levels" (Normal + Apocalypse worlds, bosses on, bonus races on). Two categories that represent the "fastest" and "maximalist" extremes.

On second thought, that feels like a cleaner solution that creates an environment that's not so overwhelming to newcomers deciding what to run. Normally I would be worried about obsoleting runs with category compression like that, but for some reason it appears there are zero runs in "All Levels" at the moment?

Ampo74 curtiram isso
Pennsylvania, USA
ModeradorTheTaraStark
She/Her, They/Them
4 months ago

After a few weeks thinking it over, I think I'd lean towards my second proposal (any% staying as-is, the minimum requirements for credits but completed in speedrun mode, and All Levels being one board with rules clarifying Bosses/Races/Apocalypse on, truly all of the levels completed in speedrun mode). I've asked a few folks familiar with SRcom and speedrunning but unfamiliar with GY for input as well, and they've mostly agreed the main categories being fractured as they are now is super overwhelming for new folks who want to jump in.

Anyone have other thoughts?

Editado por o autor 4 months ago
Ampo74 curtiram isso
Rhône-Alpes, France

I'm ok with this, so to summarize and to check that I understood correctly :

  • Any% : All six "normal" worlds with bosses (no bonus, no apocalypse)

  • All levels : With every single levels (normal worlds + apocalypse worlds + bonus levels + bosses)

I can make the change to the leaderboard but I will wait a few days to make sure that anyone can respond if they have any important stuff to say.

TheTaraStark curtiram isso
Rhône-Alpes, France

It's been two months, I really need to do this.

I will try to make the change later today.

TheTaraStark curtiram isso
Pennsylvania, USA
ModeradorTheTaraStark
She/Her, They/Them
2 months ago

Will add one more thing I hadn't considered until a few days ago: the category rules should probably include which "boss checkpoints" (deaths return to boss Phase 1/2/3 instead of back to beginning of boss) are allowed. My understanding is that, by default, the game has checkpoints on for Station Boss but none of the others. If that is correct, I'd suggest making that the rule for runs as well. :)

Ampo74 curtiram isso
Rhône-Alpes, France

That is absolutely the case (only Station boss has checkpoints enabled by default). Adding that to the rules seems like a good idea yes !

I'm sorry I said I would update the board last week, but a ton of personal stuff happened so I don't have the time to do it right now T_T

TheTaraStark curtiram isso
Pennsylvania, USA
ModeradorTheTaraStark
She/Her, They/Them
2 months ago

Rules have been updated :)

Next up, I wanted to get All Levels cleaned up, but there is one run on the board that doesn't fit into the new rules. Archiving the category would remove the run from Marthmer's profile, which feels mean when they have no other runs. What I've done for now is renamed the preexisting "All levels" category to "All levels (Legacy)" and made it a hidden category, so the run still exists on their profile though it is not part of the new category definition. I also added a blurb to the rules that the category is historical only and not accepting new submissions, while also suggesting which similar categories runners could submit to if interested.

Let me know if y'all have better ideas! For example, we could rename the category to "All levels (deprecated) or something similar instead, I just wanted to do something for now that was non-destructive.

Editado por o autor 2 months ago
Ampo74 curtiram isso
Pennsylvania, USA
ModeradorTheTaraStark
She/Her, They/Them
1 month ago

Marthmer's All Levels run has been resubmitted (by me) as 6 separate 01-20 runs, each with a link to the original All Levels (legacy) run in the description. Several other Single World runs have gotten similar treatment (resubmitted as separate 01-20, Boss, and Bonus runs) as part of the conversion of "Single World" from a category with 4 subcategories to the Levels section.

As part of that same cleanup, the former ILs have been converted to a Google Spreadsheet which lives in the Resources section here on SRcom, easily accessible and editable by mods, before the ILs (with the exception of Boss/Bonus) were archived on this site. This conversion was discussed in more detail here.

While I have done a fair bit of planning and triple-checking to ensure a smooth transition, if anyone notices any weird hitches in the system that may have been a result of the category cleanup, please let us know so we can address them!

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