I changed the rules a bit. Video recording is now required, even though all submitted runs already had a video proof. Verification is not required anymore. In an unlikely event there seems to be something dubious about a submitted run, it can be pointed out in the forums. Also added Krzysiek as mod. Let me know if there are any objections.

Very happy to see this game is actually getting some love recently. I think at this time it would be a good idea to discuss and clarify rules a bit more as there hasn't been much reason to do so before. There are some things that could potentially make future runs faster. These are patch version differences and saving/loading during a mission.

1. Individual levels have been so far played without using saves. Saves could potentially be used for RNG manipulation. Best example of this is using saves in missions 8 & 9 to avoid getting hit or to hit with a missile, when playing as Harkonnen. There are probably other uses for saves for RNG manipulation as well. I noticed Krzysiek using saves in Harkonnen mission 5, but in that case there wasn't any actual benefit for doing so. IMO saves should be allowed by default also in the future for full-game runs, because of potentially losing lots of time in a long run. For individual levels saves could be used to gain advantage, instead of necessity.

2. So far all the runs have been played on version 1.07 as far as I've noticed. On earlier versions of the game there could be glitches to be exploited and different factions may have different number of starting resources. This have been fixed and balanced to an extent for the last patch version.

3. Disabling copyright questions for full-game runs. IMO copy protection questions should be allowed to be disabled with a crack if the game is not modified in any other way. I've seen speedruns of other games (for example Eye of the Beholder) that allow this by default. It probably doesn't save much time if you know the questions by heart or have those at hand, but can make some difference.

4. This has been discussed already before, but this is a good time to mention it again. There are three Genesis version runs atm. in the IL leaderboard. These could stay there for now and moved to a separate category if requested or if more runs are posted for the console.

We could keep the current boards as "purist" (1.07 and no save/load for IL runs) and make a new category for "anything goes" in the future if need arises. Another option would be to add an extra condition for patch version and save / loads in IL runs for current boards. I think it's a good idea not to overcomplicate and keep things simple for now until more people get to running this game, but at the same time try to be precise so there won't be a reason to argue in the future. We can keep this discussion open, in case other people join in and want different rules. Please give feedback and let me know what you think.

Fortunately times have changed so video recordings are much easier to produce.

1. Didn't actually think that save/load would be an issue. IMO it's better to keep save/load allowed. From what I've seen only The Missile random landing location was abusable. That being said, I wouldn't mind if "no load" was made a rule for individual levels.

2. Definitely v1.07 should be the standard. Seeing all the differences for v1.00-v1.06 would make comparing runs awkward. Unfortunately there's no way to see which version game is running (unless recording was made from the starting screen).

3. Skipping the copyright questions sounds perfectly fine for me.

4. Genesis version runs are different platform of the same game. I don't see any point in moving them somewhere else. The spreadsheet of individual levels is complicated enough as of now.

I've watched some Genesis gameplay a bit better... pretty much everything is different. Still not sure if there's a way to separate runs and still keep a readable sheets.

Thanks for the feedback. I added into rules that version 1.07 must be used, and for full-game runs that copy protection questions can be disabled. Added extra variable for IL runs for saves / loads, runs can stay on the same board of course. Does this sound reasonable?

For moving Genesis runs I meant that those would still show up on the same board in IL runs, but would be side by side with MS-DOS version instead obsoleting another. Instead of current "beat the mission" it would have "Genesis" and "MS-DOS" as separate columns. Not a difficult to change it, but IMO can stay as is for now.

EDIT: Removed the variable. We can consider about adding it in the future if saving / loading actually seems to make a big difference in terms of strategy. So saving / loading is now explicitly allowed in both full-game and IL rules.

There's not been much new activity with MS-DOS version for a while. I was thinking if it would be worth while to create a separate glitchless category, possibly for both full-game and IL runs? Old glitchless runs could be moved there as well if there's an interest in devoloping new runs. I'll be unlikely to participate in running myself though, but let me know if this sounds something worth considering.

You may want to check the discord channel. There was someone asking about the MS-DOS version and glitches there, some months ago.

Thanks for the info. You should direct them here If someone shows interest in running this game.

I kind of assumed they already knew about the forum. Isn't the discord channel newer?

My preference is there is not a glitched leaderboard split for DOS. Especially with no active runners and its already a small leaderboard.

In the finer detail, it is nearly impossible to police glitchless in a meaningful way for Atreides, as it would mean outright banning carryall repairs to avoid any accusation of ghosting, which is a pretty arbitrary restriction on your gameplay. Your run can get invalidated by bad luck.

Its slightly better for Harkonnen/Ordos but you can still easily accidentally ghost with a starport for some period of time.

Darksniping is easier to define but you are also likely to do it by accident and you need to define a complex rule like "For each enemy faction, you must be aggrod by an enemy unit before attacking any enemy structures".

The game is just a bit too glitchy and the glitches aren't easily avoided.

Thanks for the feedback. Rationale for my suggestion is that this could motivate creating new runs and strategies, but your arguments are valid. In absence of new runs there's not much reason to split categories. Glitchless runs would also involve only later missions and might just create confusion in the board if applied to IL category. But we can come back to discussing this if there's sufficient support or arguments for glitchless runs.