Hello there, Instagibz here.

In the past some people in the community asked for a glitchless subcat. in "Doom (2016)", a while ago i decided to go ahead and add such category to the game, because it looked like there would be some competition going on. To me this has not proven to be true.

While there is some players running this subcat., more or less serious, it's much more of a meme category then anything else at this point. Considering the rapid stagnation of the popularity of the game, i feel like it might be time to say goodbye to this subcat. again.

Not only is this category basicly dead, it also suffers from severe lack of definition and rules, the biggest part of the active runners never touched glitchless and never will, working out rules, and putting up exact definitions of what is glitching, what is smart use of game mechanics and what is actually intended by the developers is basically not possible at this point, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of this category altogether.

I am open for opinions about this, thus i created a strawpoll where you can share your opinion about this topic.

Thanks for your attention.

CLICK HERE FOR STRAWPOLL!

Glitchless makes me http://media.istockphoto.com/photos/irritated-man-with-hands-out-in-stop-gesture-picture-id183380336

I think if glitchless didn't exist, someone would do it having leaderboard or not. I'm all for glitchless runs in games that are very broken and that you skip entire stages with relative minimum effort.

Not having players running a certain category doesn't mean it's invalid, all it means it's not popular. For instance, NG+/Classic has less players in the leaderboard than Glitchless, should that be removed too?

It's certainly hard to define what is glitch or not in such a buggy game. I see glitchless in every game as not using the game's glitches to speed up your run, it's arbitrary, but speedruns are arbitrary and what is important is common agreement between people who run and even if someone doesn't agree, they can still do their own thing.

The only thing I see as a borderline glitch in the glitchless category is the door skip in Kadingir Sanctum (which is arguable because jumps can be weird depending on the surface, like giving you boosts or putting you in a higher coordinate if you're precise) and a jump in The Well which puts you near on the top of a invisible wall attached with a small ledge on the mountain.

Gauss boosts are not glitches, neither are the use of reloads and sequence breaks. So, in the end I think there's not much to blame glitchless for being invalid or arbitrary other than 2 small sections of the run. The rest of the rejection by most players is merely due to not liking the category without technical arguments.

In my opinion glitchless category is similar to 100% category - it's slower than any%, but if people want to do such a run, let them have it. The only problem is to define what is and isn't a glitch.

From what I've seen, most games with a lot of glitches and large enough community have glitchless category.

This category was a thing that got me into speedrunning. The thing I like about this category is the challenge because it will take almost two hours to complete it..

I actually don't see the point in any% classic anymore. The game has been broken up so far that that the entertainment value is pretty low. But still - respects to those that run it, I don't mean it is easy.

I think and feel this category is just warming up. I have been working and training a new run from the day I posted my previous one but I won't post until I finish a polished and optimized one. We don't have so many runners but I am still in the game and working on something new every day. And I know there are a few others also doing the same. I personally also have plans for an all secrets and a nightmare run in glitchless but they need some heavy planning and routing.

When I posted my first run, I had been training for a few runs and my routes, fights and everything was sloppy as hell. And I still took over the world record for a few days. After that there was actually some competition in the category and major improvements one run after another. I personally have shaved almost an hour from my first posted time. I also don't see a problem with the rules, I think we have them set up quite clearly.

I do not see the point in removing the glitchless category.

In a game such as this where the any% classic speedrun skips a majority of the game in terms of content and fights, a glitchless category has its place. I'm not going to argue about there being any challenge present or not - both categories are difficult in their own ways. And that's the beauty of it - the speedruns are completely different with the same end goal, and the difference in time is quite large! Not only do I think it's good to keep the category because of this reason, but also because it can potentially appeal to a wider range of runners.

Besides, what is the negative side of keeping the option available to players? It's a tab that isn't in focus for the visitors of the boards, considering the popular categories are the default ones being shown. There's no real clogging from what I can see - the boards are fairly tidy as it is!

As pentaleks stated earlier as well, there exists a less popular category that does not seem to receive any similar treatment. Is it because the "rules are fleshed out"? Or does it simply narrow down to people not liking it, which is.. you know.. extremely subjective and quite irrelevant when there, quite frankly, does exist interest in it as well. It's pretty much a stalemate at that point.

The whole purpose of this category is not defeated by the arguements given. The fact remains that the runs are incredibly different and provides two different ways of playing the game. What you say is true; at this point defining a glitch in this game is incredibly difficult. But it is also quite easy to see what is 'intended', and the rules flesh that part out quite well I feel.

"No OOB" "No GK-Skip" "No Animation Cancel" "No BFG-Bosskill"

These things are quite clearly not intended by the developers. And these rules are fine! These are the things that makes this game "glitchless." Let's take Ocarina of Time Glitched vs. Glitchless as an example. There are tricks in the glitchless run that could definitely be considered glitches, but since it is extremely hard to tell, and the tricks in question do not break the game entirely, they let it slip. The same could work here. And this is something that could develop over time. I also think like pentaleks on this one: the category isn't fully explored yet.

I'm in the process of learning glitchless, so hopefully you won't disregard what I have to say simply because I don't have a run on the boards yet. But it'd be pretty disappointing to see this category go away for no valid reason. And if I'm honest, from an objective point of view this only seems to hurt the game rather than the opposite because there are no flaws present with having the option available. If it's a meme run to the rest of the community, then it would be better to place it under misc - don't remove it entirely.

I am of course a little bias since it's the only game and category I've ever posted a time for, but I don't feel like it should be removed. It's an option and people have posted times to it -- for that reason alone, I don't see a reason to remove it. Especially considering it is the only normal run.

"...it also suffers from severe lack of definition and rules"

I would argue that the rules are quite clear.

I don't know. I am in the minority when it comes to the speed running community in general. I love seeing how broken games are and am absolutely amazed at what a lot of runners can do, but I have always preferred to speed through games normally.

What exactly is the issue with keeping the category? It's not as if there's a ton of other categories. It actually isn't a niche category in my eyes (it's "Glitchless", not "Glory-Kills Only"). It's most definitely not a strain on any of the moderator's time ;)

Hi I don't run doom (I saw the topic on r/speedrun) but I have been in several communities that have done this and I feel like removing a category because its not run often is not a very good reason to remove it. The whole point of leaderboards are to archive best times and runs not showing whats popular and just out right removing a category just takes out a bit of history from the game

Fix the way glitchless runs were categorized, mine and I assume others are missing from the main board.

^ This I'm 54th place and proud of it, I want the world to know ! OpieOP

I say Glitchless is more skillful and nothing meme about it you want a meme run check my profile for dead rising 72 hour mode case a all story missions complete most boring speedrun ever lol but using glitches can be skillful depending on the difficulty to pull them off but again i am a mostly glitchless speed runner and would like to add my times with it being fair

You obviously haven't been running Doom for long, because you would actually know just how hard it is to define rules for Glitchless in this game. Take Argent Energy Tower for example: define what is inbounds and out of bounds.

Also yes, Glitchless is a meme in Doom.

Man, if only there was a way to get glitchless back on the leaderboard and if only the people complaining they want it back actually did runs of the category. It's not like the mods told people exactly the way to get this awful category back up on the leaderboards or anything. But no, they are the only people that make the decisions around here eh?

Just because someone people dont like a category doesnt mean the category shouldnt be there glitchless just proves more skill unfortunatly the mods just seem to have a ego the size of this game.

I mean atleast have a console category

Glitchless in this game is fucking cancer without even mentioning the fact that its pretty much impossible to define in d2016.

and...why would you want a console category? The game runs at 30fps on consoles, rendering most if not all glitches impossible, plus it's harder to aim, which would make the run take even LONGER.

Sorry mate but just because you dont run or like a category doesnt mean its time to shut it down it doesnt work that way and also main reason i play on console is because some games dont work on my computer doom being one of them so its a bit unfair for people like myself i mean what would you say if it was the other way round if any% wasnt on the category and also ive beaten world records on xbox vs a pc run being the world record holder was playing on pc so its not just about fps or glitches but the skill of the runner and thats what glitchless highlights mostly through gameplay and the understanding of the game if not a glitchless category then why not a no oob/major skip category all im saying is that its abit wierd that you all discriminate console players dont we have a right to do speed runs aswell as you?

btw when you say a category is a meme doesnt make unrunable

Still can't believe these mods won't bring back a dead, undefineable category.

In all seriousness, run what you want. And once again, the mods have stated that they will re-add Glitchless if people: 1. Define rules that actually make sense and can be applied on every level and 2. Actually run the fucking category with said rules. If only people actually joined the community instead of bitching all the fucking time they would know this.

Running the game will make your comments more credible. Do a run before asking for changes to the leaderboard. There is currently one run on console. Why does it need its own leaderboard if there is one run? There is a difference between asking for a free world record leaderboard and asking for a category because you actually like it. You can't like a category you literally have never ran. As mentioned take part in the community and actually play the game. Then mods can add it but until someone actually does and proves them wrong it is staying this way.