it should be the first six levels as a category extension. So much more fun
If you can't beat the whole game, feel free to submit to the IL board! Incomplete categories for an already very short game will not be added to a "Full game leaderboard".
I actually agree with heyxo. He makes a point that the first 6 levels are quite a bit more fun than the rest of the game and make a great subcategory if you’re starting to speedrun the game! Also, the fact that the game is already short shouldnt prevent a new category extension from being established, since there is already a category for the 100% runs. My point being, there’s no point in not adding this category extension since it is a great way to start speed running this game if you are unfamiliar with the mechanics. It is also great just for a short and sweet run if you aren’t feeling like beating the entire game. It’s also much more fun in the first 6 levels.
As far as I’m concerned The Tree is the only level that is boring. As for using the first six levels as a way to learn the game I definitely think it’s a great idea, when I first started running I learned the game up to bug bar and did runs until I consistently got runs under 13 minutes there, but but I don’t see why you’d need a leaderboard to do that. If you’re just looking for something “less boring” I’d suggest the misc categories.
You don't need a leaderboard for it, I promise. It's a twenty minute speedgame. I ran another PS1 game 5 years ago that ended up being 3 hours long to 100%. I made my splits and did runs up through certain levels and forfeited the run each time on a later level than the last time, ultimately getting much better at the early game. I never considered creating an incomplete category based on my incompetence. Finishing the full run one day was very rewarding and it became a breeze every subsequent time. Learn the run and reconsider your idea. If you really want times to compare to, I'll look at my best split times for each boss and post them here.
The whole game is fun imo. The tree can be boring but doing it fast is still possible and the consequence is falling. Why not the first 4 levels or 5 levels? There are IL boards if you want to only do specific levels.
If you are speedrunning for the nostalgia and you never beat City Entrance, the IL board is for you.
There is only 5 categories for this game, and they are all tedious (other than the any%), and it makes new speedrunners have a harder time finding this game and enjoying it. Considering there is only a few ways to speedrun the game, one more category shouldn't add too much complexity to the leaderboards. Could we at least get an abl category extensions page? Because we can't make a category extensions page without being a moderator here.
An IL board is too simplistic, and isn't really what we're trying to go for with a new category. Considering all of the categories (other than the any%) are 100% categories, we're just trying to make the game more accessible to new speedrunners.
I am confused on why specifically the first six levels? and not five or seven? finding levels fun is subjective and doesn't make much sense creating category for x levels because you like them more then others imo. Like Jumpy said there are IL leaderboards so you can grind the levels you like.
I could understand having extra categories if the route was different compared to the any% route but its exactly the same and any any% run could just be edited and then submitted which makes 0 sense.
Thanks for your input, but this really makes no sense to me. It is the first two portions of a 20 minute game. You could always make a spreadsheet yourself if you just want to compare to others. But as destabilize mentioned, literally anyone on the board would just be able to cut the run and carry it over to the lb. I also wouldn't consider the il board simplistic. You could always do runs to your point and optimize the times for each level in that way. But also the whole il board is actually really complex, there is so much minor optimization that i think a lot of people tend to look over. Overall, I do agree with jumpy's standpoint on this, it doesn't make sense to add boards for such unique interests. If we were to add something like this, who is to say that in a couple weeks someone wouldn't be asking for just the first 4 levels, because level 5 is such a run killer.
Individual Levels are exactly for people who only want to do certain chunks of a larger whole. In games that are much longer (like RPG runs), they tend to have misc. categories that are the first chunk of the game (Boogey%, Magus%, etc.). A ~25 min run doesn't really call for that.
Also, it's okay to only particularly enjoy Any%. I have little interest myself in doing the other categories outside of maybe FLIK tokens.
The game is pretty dang accessible between a tutorial, multiple versions to run, and so on. Really the only accessibility things to consider is adjusting what emulators are allowed and tool development for the PC version.
In the end, if the game doesn't interest you that much that's fine. But changing the leaderboard for someone who is on the fence doesn't make much sense.
Would it not make sense to add half of the game due to there only be a couple categories already, including 100%, all flik tokens, grain, etc., which is full completion of individual aspects to the game. And saying that we should just deal with it and go to the IL board is different than what we are asking for, when we are suggesting a whole new category extension for the first half of the game it would make a lot more sense than something as random as levels 3-7 or 5-9 for example. When it comes down to it, there’s not much effort required to add a category extension, especially for something as reasonable as the first or second half of the game as it would make sense especially when starting out speed running this game. It can help to get used to mechanics and also make shorter runs. Especially due to some of the later levels being run killers, it can help make for less pressure on a shorter run like this. And also if we take a look to lower on the leaderboard we can see how some runs took an hour or more because of these later levels. Just like how you say fun is completely subjective, so can be skill. Just because it CAN be a short game if you execute the skips flawlessly doesn’t mean everyone has the time, patience, experience, or practice to do so, or even just the ability to even be that good at a game, even if it can be easier for some people like you. I think what we are asking for is completely reasonable, especially in the aspect to newcomers to the community like us which could be an awesome way to welcome new speed runners in general to a smaller community and game.
For example, Minecraft speedrunning is also a relatively short run, as good runners can regularly get 20 minute times, but there are still many shorter category extensions (such as FSG). Just because the game is short by itself, doesn't mean it couldn't benefit from a faster run that is better for newcomers. Even though the category isn't necessary for the game to be speedran, it allows new runners to enjoy the game more without spending hours practicing the much harder later levels. The reason the first six levels are what we think of is because the strats for them are much easier to learn than the levels proceeding it.
I think you already got your answer!
I don't care how easy or hard it is to implement a board. If it makes sense to have the category, we'll make it happen. This is not the problem here. Even if we did add the leaderboard, it isn't going to magically make you or any other new runner instantly better at the game. Your logic is counterintuitive, by the way. You claim the category would be used for practice, but proceed to explain that the back half of the game is what costs new runners the majority of the timeloss. Just PLAY THE GAME. You don't need a leaderboard to do so.
