Hey everyone, very recently both Ingame 100% for GTA3 and Vice City were removed from speedrun.com by Mhmd_FVC without concerting with other mods.

After some discussing on IRC, it was decided that categories shouldn't get removed like that and that there should be a consensus about its removal. This is why i'm making this thread so people voice there opinion on the subject.

Please make your opinion clear by voting:

1. I want Ingame 100% NG+ to stay on the leaderboard as a misc.
2. I don't care, i don't particularly want it to be removed
3. I want Ingame 100% NG+ to be removed

Feel free to explain your stance and give arguments here, but keep in mind this thread is only Ingame 100% runs so talks about other categories have no place here (like Kingdom Come/Trevor%/Classic%/ILs ...)

ffzyesDuping

I did agree with Omega to remove it, so "without concerting with other mods" is not 100% true. I'll make known my intended relevant modding decisions in IRC from now on so that I don't do something that people actually end up hating (like if I made Gaël a mod... OneHand )

In any case, I'll go with 3 now that the topic has been brought up a bunch recently. I honestly don't deep-down care about what is under "misc categories" since they are all hidden by default, but if we're talking about whether it "should" be removed or not, then by all means, yes: as a reference, I can only imagine it being used by an extreme minority, and even then it could be documented in a better way than having a near-empty leaderboard category; and the respective categories in III/VC never had any competition at all, and I'm certain never will because the runs are so absurd. My run to bop yours in VC was a one-off and doesn't count as competition, in my opinion. The categories were never really worthy of spots on here in the first place, even if hidden under miscellaneous.

(Says the guy who created GTA III NG+ in-game 100% on this site. You did ask nicely and I felt nice though, but now for serious biz.)

edit: Actually, I think a good option for documenting the existence of duping your way to 100% in a speedrun fashion would be to drop a link to each WR in the rules of the 100% categories. I already have in the VC 100% rules "(see In-Game 100% NG+)", so that could be used to link to my run, and there could be one for GTA III as well. Very subtle and easy to access as well.

2

I don't really see the harm in keeping a miscellaneous category. Yes, it was pretty inactive, and I think there was only 1 or 2? runs on there. But if someone really wants it to stay, then why not just leave it there. Most misc. categories are inactive anyways, so that's not really a reason to remove a category in my opinion. Since it was misc. already, people should know these categories are to be taken less seriously, and it could still be considered a funny way to complete the game.

Edit: nvm, I was talking about putting back 7 assets too (since I have the same mindset about that), but apparently it's only about IG 100%. OpieOP

3. Get rid of this abomination

I understand that there are other leaderboards (VCS any%-J, kingdom come) that should be removed if ingame hundo is to be removed, but I'd be happy to see that happen since they should be gone too imo

edit: I should add that one of the key reasons for my opinion that it should be removed is the lack of popularity for the leaderboard in such a popular game (one way to look at it is that less than 2% of any% runners have done a run of this category)

the actual content of the run (which I dislike) shouldn't be brought into question when making the decision; so this isn't about it being a "meme"

3. m80

mhmd: you call duping a mission XX times is absurd but you do the same in "real" 100%

omega and karl: have you ever watch a full run of the category ?

bubble: if the popularity mattered then might as well remove all USJ and Packages (and problably ever other misc GTA categories)

There are categories far worse than this on the leaderboards (such as Kingdom Come and Sweatshirt). Until those are removed, I don't see why this should, considering it's a legitimate speedrun that unlocks the rewards for 100% completion as fast as possible (even if it's shit)

I didn't say that TBD taxi wasn't absurd. At least it isn't like 50% of the entire run or something.

duping isn't 50% of the run in ingame hundo either (timewise)

I'd gladly see the less popular collectible categories gone (IE: VC USJs, not All robberies since that's actually had competition and been pushed, debatably VC Packages).

We can delay this talk and look at other boards first if other boards existing while this isn't allowed to is the problem.

that isn't the ONLY reason I'd want to see NG+, ingame, 100% though. The other key reason is the number of stupid 'variables' (NG+ being the key one) being applied to such a run. Why should such a vague concept be a leaderboard in the first place? I don't see any reason for it to be whatsoever. This also applies to Kingdom come once again, it's a really convoluted and pointless leaderboard.

3

just stop

3

Normally i would say 2, but in this case my vote is 1.

Reason is, that the the timing for the removal doesn't go well with the reasoning. As you guys are aware the marathon is coming up and ingame hundo will be there. The idea of the marathon is show off the runs to people who don't run gta and maybe get some new players into the community. Removing a LB of a run that is on the marathon works against that idea.

If about 2 months after the marathon nothing changed about the situation and nobody submitted runs, then it would be fine. But now is a bad moment to remove it.

1

I agree to Jolzi, this should stay up until the marathon is over atleast, also Ingame hundo might appeal or atleast raise curiosity to viewers/runners/gamers in general who have never really seen GTA speedruns just because of the way 100% is achieved in this category. It won't really hurt anyone to keep this up for few weeks anyways if it doesn't gain any popularity.

3

edit: Response to MH's first post: In my opinion, leaderboard management or anything else regarding speedrun.com should be discussed on the speedrun.com forums instead of the IRC, because:

• it more is relevant here
• you can reference posts here easily (impossible on IRC)
• people can see discussions after they happen for the rest of eternity
• people can give feedback way after the discussion happened if there is something new that is relevant
• counting votes is possible here unlike IRC
• some people who care about the LB and the forums don't frequent the IRC (like myself)

It's a lot easier to do initial back-and-forth talking on IRC though. I basically summed up what I put in IRC in my post, and added more to it as well, but yeah, you make a fair point; nothing final should be done until it's posted about on here I suppose. (or discord but eh)

I agree completely, I don't usually post anything on the forums before I consult other people in some way (IRC/Steam chat/whatever, for the reasons you said, mainly to find out if the info I was about to post is new or not, valid or not, etc), and the reason that I post here is so that everyone can see it (+ the other reasons I mentioned) and give feedback.

I think that managing the Discord part of the community could be posted to Discord (for the same reasons as I said above). By the same logic, managing IRC stuff should go to the IRC. This is based on the "relevancy" argument. IRC has the drawback of no permanent message storage, of course, but that can be countered by posting some logs and accepting feedback afterwards, but at this point this is all trivial

Categories on the leaderboards should be evaluated according to their goal and not to their execution. It is completely fine to have it as a misc category imo, i.e if this has no place on the leaderboards, Kingdom Come surely has even less reasons to be there.