Denmark@FireXPlays @kkr We have a discord if you're up for joining. It takes a bit of work to join multiplayer because Mojang shut down their server, but it's all explained in #announcements. Starts in an hour and a half (although you can join later if you want, assuming we're <10 players)!
I can obviously only speak for myself, but I personally would like at least some insight into how cheaters who have been caught earlier are handled. Not that I'd want any names thrown around, but I think a brief explanation of "anyone who has been caught intentionally cheating is on the list" (or if they aren't, and explanation of why that is) would be reasonable.
Personally, I think it'd be pretty natural for most speedrun communities to ban any runner that's caught cheating. I get that that's a non-trivial policy to adopt due to the whole Border% debacle, but I am honestly a bit surprised at how few consequences there are for straight up cheating a run.
If you're talking about the meme run, it's worth mentioning that a relatively flat world consists of ~450k blocks. If you're able to break blocks at an average of 5 bps (which might even be a bit high, considering you have to move around and keep going for the duration of the run) that'll take you roughly 25 hours.
@shanelaw It's more likely to be an autoclicker, especially considering his time is so close to the ~1.140s it takes to fall the 29 blocks. Unfortunately bedrock% can't really be policed without a handcam, since there's no definitive proof that they're cheating.
Regardless, this obviously isn't the thread to discuss this.
@SpaceByte If you've seen players spawning at border legit (i.e. from start screen) then that's all that's needed - a single video is enough to prove that it's possible. I just haven't found one yet. If one exists, I'd love to see it so we can figure out why it works.
That being said, with how the code works (as described in the OP) plus several hours of my own world generation, I feel fairly confident that my description is correct barring any weird bugs. That's not to say that the existing runs are intentionally cheated, but it currently seems unlikely that they are possible when following the rules.
@SpaceByte Any progress on verifying this?
I assume you're talking about the Minecraft Classic Timer userscript.
First you want to install an extension that supports userscripts. Popular examples are Tampermonkey and Greasemonkey (the latter is Firefox-only). I believe Chrome supports userscripts without any extensions, but I've never tested it.
Then you simply follow the link and click the "Raw" button. You should get a pop-up asking you if you want to install the userscript. Once it's installed, it's completely automatic, and will show in the top-right on classic.minecraft.dev.
@SpaceByte Considering that runs are getting submitted (and verified) without showing it, I still feel like it'd be worth it to explicitly state that clicking through the "Generate new level..." menu must be shown.
@SpaceByte The wording of the new rule is wrong. It's not the world generation that has to be shown (that shows the same thing whether you load an existing map or generate a new one), it's clicking through the "Generate new level..." menu (which makes sure you're generating a new level).
@Smedgies True. Since it's a browser game, and it exposes it's utility object as a global, it's trivial to hook into it and just overwrite the world all together, or set your spawn point programmatically. Unfortunately there's really no way to detect that happening, just like there's no way to detect a well-made spliced video.
Minecraft Classic saves the map 3 seconds after a block has been edited. It then tries to load that same map if you visit classic.minecraft.net again. This means that you can make a "legit" run, showing the start screen, in a map that you've changed to suit your needs.
Since the spawnpoint is picked randomly between (32,32) and (96,96), it might take a few tries before you spawn where you want, but you can easily get <0.2s times by cheating like this.
Simply require people to show that they clicked the "Generate new level..." menu in their videos.
Generated levels until I found one with a tall mountain, manually built the mountain even higher using dirt, manually added a tree on top, with the top of the tree just below the build limit. Reloaded the page until I spawned on top, got a time of 0.118s.
Generated levels until I found one with exposed iron in the right direction, manually added a beach in front of it so I had as many spawn points as possible that would look directly at it. Reloaded the page until I spawned in front of it, got a time of 0.001s.
I'm not gonna claim it's impossible I missed something (it's 106k lines of obfuscated code), but I'd quite like to see video proof of that happening after a "Generate new level...".
I don't want to start a witch hunt, but the fact that both runners have been previously involved in dodgy behavior ( https://www.speedrun.com/mcc/thread/a69l7 and https://www.speedrun.com/mcc/thread/lznob ) is context worth mentioning
I got a bit suspicious of the border% records due to the gap between #2 and #3, so I decided to look into the code that runs Minecraft Classic (web).
TL;DR: It is impossible to spawn less than 32 blocks from the border without cheating. The #1 and #2 times on border% are cheated
The code that picks the spawn location is:
Since this is obviously minified, and thus fairly unreadable, I took the liberty of translating it into pseudocode:
In other words, the spawn point is chosen randomly within (worldsize/4) of the map center. For this reason it's impossible to spawn at the border.
Combined with the fact that both #1 and #2 don't show clicking the "Generate new level..." menu, and start at the pause screen, I think it's fair to say they're both cheated.
The #3 time, which shows the "Generate new level..." menu, spawns exactly 32 blocks from the border, and is thus close to perfect.
