Hey all,

this is my first post in a Forum related to speedrunning so "yay" I guess. Anyway, I was asking in Adams chat about anyone knowing why there is no all missions speedrun of San Andreas. It kind of would make sense to me because it should be way shorter than 100% and a lot of people complain about the abnormal length of 100%. The only person that answered me was Jolzi, stating that there is the category (theoretical) but nobody runs it. Now don't get me wrong, Im not a speedrunner myself, and since I dont own SA for pc (used to own it for PS2) I would not be able to run it anyway. Just thinking I throw the thought into the room (or this forum at least) and maybe some of you amazing SA runners post your thoughts about the category. If it is not possible, I would at least like to know what the main problems would be running this. i would have just asked this in twitch chat when josh or someone else is streaming, but I think since its a longer thought that i would write it down here.

Also, since I get the opportunity to say this, shoutouts to all GTA runners. You are doing an amazing job in not only beating those games the fastest way possible, but also in entertaining the masses :D

PS: sorry for the bad grammar, but Im way too lazy to correct it. I think it makes sense anyway :)

Well, my guess would be that unlike GTA 3 and VC, SA requieres almost all missions in any%. IIRC only Zero and the casino heist missions are skipped, maybe Wang Cars counts too? Anyway it wouldn't add much to the run, and any% is long enough. So no one bothered.

That are atleast my thoughts.

I guess that makes sense. Although I still think that all of zero's missions and the remaining Casino missions would add up to at least another hour. But i guess it's just not enough to make it worth the while since its not that much of a difference to any%. I guess I just wanted to see if there is the possibility of a category between the 6 hours of any% and the 15 hours of 100%. But most of the SA side missions are extremely bad for that (quarry, courier, valet, etc.). I should have thought about that earlier. But thanks for sharing your thoughts jim :D

There's a 'missions attempted/passed' counter in the stats menu, and it counts literally everything other than collectibles. I know S was thinking about doing an 'all missions' run using this as the definition as practice for 100%

The possibility is there, maybe someday the any% record will be almost unbeatable and runners will search for new categories.

I think going with the same definition as 3/vc would be the best. That is "complete everything that changes the name of your save file". That would be any% + zero + heist + wang cars + nrg playground + bmx + street/air races + driving school (doesn't change the name but needed to unlock wang cars).

Going for the mission counter is not a good idea now that mission duping is a thing. Especially the way the counter works in sa. Defining it as "get the counter to 100" (or what ever the total mission number is) doesn't work with all missions.

If the mission counter is used then the definition should be "Complete every single objective that increases the mission passed counter at least once".

ok so basically it would be possible but there seems to be a lack of definition. I think I would agree with Jolzi here; doing everything that changes the name of the save file. Even if it is not "all missions" theoretically, it works as being a category between any% and 100%. If you would go after the missions counter you still have a lot of boring and long stuff in it which would be unappealing to most runners I think. i guess it would be a special definition like the GTA IV classic%. But its good to see that there is the possibility. I understand now why there hasn't been much (if any) discussion about this. It would be very hard to define such a category.

I think there's 2 ways to define GTA SA - All Missions, you can either do everything that increment the mission counter (increment_mission_attempts in main.scm) that means everything written in this http://pastebin.com/MzsvdpAi or you can do every missions defined as missions in the main.scm (DEFINE MISSION), list: http://pastebin.com/x5n2mncR

the differences between the two definitions are listed here: http://pastebin.com/CF9XwV6a

both definitions include Taxi-Driver, Paramedic, Firefighter, Vigilante, Freight Train and Pimping Sub-Mission ResidentSleeper but also stuff not even done in 100% like Burglary, Beat the Cock!(triathlon) and some video games

Holy crap thats some nice information you put together, Gael! What I noticed is that the mission tracking or counting in GTA SA is pretty weird. As far as I see it counts everything that is started like a mission, even if it is not a mission in common sense. Stuff like Paramedic, Taxi, Freight-train, etc. is exactly what I thought not to be in this category. So I guess going after the game scripts would be a bad option, even though it would be awesome to see the triathlon in a speedrun. PogChamp

When you define it the same way as VC (and III), taking everything that changes the save file name, that is also following the game scripts.

If you were to apply the definitions Gaël suggested to GTA III or VC, you would get the same kind of 'weird" stuff included, btw.

oh ok didnt knew that this applies to GTA 3 and VC, too. So I guess this could be a thing then if someone really would want to run it. thanks for all the answers so far; Its good to see that people are dedicated to answering and discussing such things. I lack a lot of knowlege when it comes to things like scripts so I apologize if I make stupid statements :) I dont know if anyone would actually run it, but i guess its like jimBeam said: maybe someday when any% is optimized enough that it will be hard to beat.

Why can't VC and SA have a similar counter to GTA3? It would make defining this category a lot less arbitrary :(.

" should be way shorter than 100%"

Except it wouldn't. The time of this run would be closer to the 100% time than the any% time.

Going by VC's definition, this run would still do all the junk that makes 100% so long in the first place (races). Sure you get rid of paramedic/taxi but that's it. It would just be too similar to 100%.

Another definition could be "mission = everything that has a permanent marker on the radar, even when you're not nearby" which would only include Zero's, Wang Cars and the Bank Heist. I don't feel this category would add much compared to any% though. Zero's missions are extremely trivial, Wang Cars missions the cutscenes take longer than the actual gameplay (and that's not because the cutscenes are long). Bank Heist is interesting, but it only affect Las Venturas (infinite minigun glitch is probably not even worth it) just doesn't leave a big enough impact on the run IMO.

SA lacks a lot of side missions, whereas in GTA3/VC the amount of side missions is bigger than the amount of main missions. Shit game.

I think the main problem is that they took out side missions and replaced them with side activities. Those side activities are the worst possible thing to put in a speedrun as they are usually long and boring. But I think you are right, it would be closer to 100% than I thought. Oh well at least Im smarter now, thanks :D

[Quote=mamamia1001]Why can't VC and SA have a similar counter to GTA3? It would make defining this category a lot less arbitrary :(.[/quote] Not really. All the missions in GTA III that change that counter, are the ones changing the save file name. So including all missions that change the save file name, is as non-arbitrary as going by that counter.

But yeah, the problem with SA AM, is that it's either barely different from any%, or it's close to 100%. Unlike III/VC, there's not really a nice balance here. The fact that R¤ removed rampages and USJ don't count, doesn't help here.

At one point I had the thought of doing an "all missions" run of this game but yeah, what's already been brought up in this thread explains why the idea maybe isn't the best.

Maybe one day I'll do a run going by the "mission = everything that has a permanent marker on the radar, even when you're not nearby" idea S. posted, but only for fun and not as a serious category I would grind.

EDIT: I only just noticed this thread is a week old now. Sorry for being late to the party. Kappa