Yeah, this is kinda the age-old debate when it comes to these marathon categories.

It's unfortunate to those of us who can't just set aside an entire day for a single run, but that's kinda just how it is. I would love to run AM or Hundo, but I have a job, bills to pay, and many other "adult" responsibilities. I just don't have the time for these marathon categories. Hell, even Damageless is kind of inaccessible to me now. I had to end my PB run because I just ran out of time to play.

So that kinda leaves us with the option of doing segmented runs and just not submitting them. Maybe somebody could start a new leaderboard through Google Sheets or something? It's been done before. But if there's a leaderboard, then we'd have to agree on rules for these segmented runs. How many segments would we be allowed? If we can take as many breaks as we want, we can basically just optimize the hell out of really small segments, at which point you're losing the spirit of the category. Where are we allowed to take breaks? Whenever we want? Or at specified points? How do we prove we're playing on the same save file between splices? and that it hasn't been tampered with?

I remember back in the day, the OoT and MM communities often did segmented runs, simply because recording technology wasn't really there yet to allow for longer recordings. So they would split the run into as many segments as they wanted (I think), and when they started up the next segment, they would show their pause menu or something to prove they were playing on the same save file and no cheating had been done between splices. But I don't even think leaderboards were even a thing yet back then. Runs were done purely for entertainment and to see how quickly the games could be beaten, and they were shared on forums like this one. The "honor system" was all that was really needed, since it really wasn't a competition back then.

So I guess my point is, yeah, it sucks that these longer categories are inaccessible to most people. But we aren't totally SOL. We can do segmented runs on our own terms if we want. Somebody could even make an unofficial leaderboard for segmented runs. Damageless used to just be a Google Sheet. If the category gets popular enough, maybe it could be added to the official leaderboard.

@PistachioPiper

Oh interesting. I didn't know that.

Edit: literally just discovered the category extensions channel of the discord. Talkatoo% seems pretty popular there. People should submit their runs. XD

Hell yeah, I'd love to have a bunch of IL leaderboards all to myself! Pog

In all seriousness though, I'm the only active Talkatoo% runner. Timpani comes back once in a blue moon when I beat his times. Gamepro887 runs it, but he hasn't submitted any of his PB's yet.

Point is, I guaruntee you I'm the only person in the world who would be arced enough to submit my golds. (And I don't really see the point if I'm the only one doing it.)

Jeeeeeezzz people need to chill the f*ck out.

@okbudlolim40 Emulators are banned because they're simply a whole can of worms that we don't really need to open. This isn't SM64. You don't have to track down ancient hardware to run this game. This is a very accessible game, and emulators simply aren't accurate or necessary enough to be worth that hassle.

@SpeedrunsX Not sure what "yep" contributes to the conversation, besides just making him feel ganged up on. Was that really a necessary post?

He clearly just came here to troll or seek attention or whatever, and he succeeded. Just ignore him and move on with your day. Don't add fuel to the fire.

You know, you're welcome to do runs on emulator and just not submit them to the leaderboard. I think the only way the mods would consider unbanning emulators is if there was a significant portion of the community doing runs on emulator. You're free to try to start that movement if you want.

As far as I understand though, Switch emulators aren't super accurate, don't run well, and don't have motion controls. (From what I hear.) So I would think if you were really getting serious about running this game, you would want to switch to console eventually anyway.

Ok, so, what I did when I was learning this game...

I followed along with Smallant1's Beginner's Guide. (Nowadays I would recommend Tomshiii's guide instead.) He had a video for each Kingdom. I would watch the video and focus primarily on memorizing the route. Then, I would do an IL or two of that Kingdom--just to learn and memorize the route. Once I had the route memorized, I would move on to the next video and repeat the process. I'm slow, so this took me like a week or two, but once I had the route for each Kingdom memorized, I just did full-game runs. I didn't do an IL again until I was at like a 1:06:XX. From there, IL's with a focus on improving your lines, optimizing your movement, and maybe implementing some more advanced tricks/strats are the most efficient ways to improve.

Can we talk about how dumb it is that you can't disable motion controls anywhere in the Switch menu or in SMO? You can turn off gyro aiming for the camera/tanks in the SMO options menu, but that's it. (It's also very misleadingly just called "Motion Controls On/Off".) As it stands now, the best way to do a no-motion-controls run is to buy a 3rd-party Procon that doesn't have motion controls. Fortunately, these go for like $30 usually, but still, that kinda sucks. Or you could just...try really hard not to shake the controller. (I had to do this because it turns out my 3rd-party Procon is broken.) I feel like we should be able to completely disable motion controls as an accessibility feature. (God forbid somebody with Parkinson's tries to play.)

Anyway, I went through a couple of Kingdoms without motion controls last night and it was interesting. Timing your roll boosts is much more important because you only get a big roll boost every third boost or so. I actually think it's more interesting than shaking, because you aren't just mashing/spamming the roll-button--you're very deliberately timing all your Roll Boosts off of slopes. Every section of rolling has its own rhythm to learn. (Kinda reminds me of Rollouts from SM64/SMS.) In some places it may be faster to repeatedly Jump-Dive (climbing slopes like "Top of a Dune") or Long Jump (short distances like the end of Lost).

Capturing things isn't has hard as I thought it would be. You get used to having to aim your Cap Throws. Onion Boys are significantly nerfed though. Climbing the inside of the tower in Wooded is like 5-10 seconds slower. "Atop a Tall Tree" is also slower, so Tree Route might not be worth it. I'm not sure about the Goryuya Backup / Intermediate No-Nut-Clip Route. (With "Atop a Tall Tree" nerfed, you're probably saving like 5 seconds at most over the Beginner Route.)

I think it would be really cool to have an Any% No Motion Controls leaderboard. I know a lot of casuals and speedrunners of other Mario games HATE the motion controls in this game. So, in that sense, having a No Motion Controls leaderboard would actually make this a more accessible speedrun to them. (Plus, it's actually a pretty fun challenge to play without them.) However, as I said before, the best way to do a run like this would be to use a controller that doesn't have motion controls. I must admit that I'm not sure how "accessible" that is. I suspect a lot of people would be running on a regular Procon/Joycons with motion controls set to Low in the game's settings, and just trying not to shake at all. A mod would have to comb through the whole run to make sure there was no accidental use of motion controls.

I've actually thought about trying a no-motion-controls run with a 3rd-party controller. Haven't actually done it yet--but I've thought about it. (I'd be more motivated to do it if there was maybe...a leaderboard for it...)

The biggest differences I can think of are:

• Rolling will be slower
• Capturing things will be slower and more difficult because you can't shake to home in
  • As a result, boss battles (Broode, Bowser) will be more difficult
• The captures themselves will all be slower (Bullet Bill, Onion Boi, Lava Bubble, Pokio)
• Dram strats won't work
• Lake Clip won't work
• Left Side Cap will be more difficult, depending on how you usually do it
• Forks sub-area will feel super weird

I'd be happy to try a run like this and give an update. It's not going to be super scientific or anything though.

I'd also like to point out that the optimal time to buy the Boxer Shorts would probably be...in Snow Kingdom. So it would baaasically be Any% until Snow (picking up some Luigi Hint Arts along the way), then Bound Bowl, then get this one Moon. Not many people are interested in running Any%-until-some-point-and-then-do-some-specific-thing categories. These ideas tend to get rejected.

The only real run like this is Festival%. It's literally just Any% until Metro, then get the Festival Triple Moon. But what makes this category great, is you can convert a dead Any% run into a Festival% run, as long as your run died before Metro. This makes it slightly less frustrating when your run dies in Wooded or Lost.

My first thought when reading this thread was, "Oh, yeah, if your run dies before Snow you can just switch to a Frozen Nipple% run and still feel like you're accomplishing something. It can be like Festival%." But there are 2 problems with that. 1.) You can't just easily convert your dead Any% run to a FN% run. You would not have been collecting coins along the way and would likely not be able to afford the Boxer Shorts. 2.) Your run would literally have to die in Metro, or else you could just do Festival%, which doesn't require any extra coins.

So unfortunately it seems like FN% is in this weird limbo where it's not different enough from Any% to be super interesting, but still too different from Any% to fill a role like Festival%. It was interesting to think about at least.

Yeah, I'm on Team Procon. I ran the game with Joycons for a year, and having downthrows was nice, but my hands are just too big for the damn things. I would accidentally press the sholder buttons all the time because there was just nowhere to comfortably rest my fat fingers.

So when my Joycons started drifting, I bought a Procon. I loved immediately. It took literally one run to get used to. And since the stick is bigger, I feel like its easier to be precise with it. I don't miss down-throws at all. They're so incredibly situational, and there is always a Procon-friendly alternate strat that only loses a fraction of a second.

TLDR: Procon > Joycons Procon is more comfortable. Joycons are too small and prone to drifting. Down-throws aren't worth it.

Ah okay. That makes sense. Well I'm going to change my routes for Cascade and Lake then. At this point I've done a few runs. I'm just waiting until I get a half-way decent one to upload--still just trying to remember my routes. I plan on uploading a run and commentating/giving my thoughts on it. So far I'm having fun with this!

@KilleDragon

Ah, okay. Well then let me rephrase my question I guess. Does "Found With Lake Kingdom Art" count as a Lake moon or a Cascade moon? In your run, you count it as a Cascade moon. I personally think it should count as a Lake moon. My reasoning is that the game considers it a Lake moon, despite it actually being found in Cascade.

So in my route, I grab 6 moons in Cascade (one of them technically being a Lake Moon), and I only grab 7 moons in Lake.

Another question:

What's the deal with Hint Art moons? If I grab Found With Dark Side Art 1, located in Cascade Kingdom, does it count towards my 5 Cascade moons?

What if I grab Found With Lake Kingdom Art (also located in Cascade Kingdom)? Does that count towards my Cascade moons or my Lake moons? Or both? or neither?

This category actually sounds pretty fun. I may give it a try this weekend. Gives me something to do on my 100%'d casual file, and lets me experience something similar to Any% but without cutscenes. Routes would probably be significantly different in some kingdoms. I watched a little bit of your run and noticed that seed moons are very good, as they're basically just a bunch of free moons right next to each other.

Some questions about rules:

Can you collect a moon more than once? For example, can I grab the three seed moons in Sand Kingdom, warp to the Plaza checkpoint, and then grab the three seed moons again? I assume not. That would be pretty lame.

And what about shop moons? Are those banned? Can I buy one from each kingdom? Can I buy 10 from each kingdom? 20? Obviously it would be really lame to just start a run with 9999 coins, buy 20 shop moons in each kingdom, and then go fight Bowser. So this is something we probably need to clarify in the rules.

One thing that sounds annoying is having to keep track of my moons, since the HUD isn't going to keep track of it for me. But at least it's not as bad as Hardcore Talkatoo%, where you literally have to do math to make sure you have the right number of moons.

And yes, this run will probably be annoying to verify. The mod will have to count each moon and make sure you don't break any rules. But again, Talkatoo% is probably still worse to verify, and that's my favorite category, so...

So I had an idea. Now, feel free to tell me I'm an idiot if I'm wrong, but is it not possible to beat the game only collecting the one mandatory treasure on the first day?

Think about it. You could keep grinding the first cave, collecting dwarf bulborbs until the debt is paid off.

You wouldn't even need to get purple pikmin. The whole game could be beaten with red pikmin only.

Has this ever been attempted? Even as a joke?