NorwayI shared this in the discord and I believe some more dedicated runners are looking into it atm. Looks promising, if it can be done consistently this could be a very nice find, possibly skipping the need for the hub 1 charm! The forums are pretty dead, but feel free to join the runners' discord where most of the acitivites takes place now, a link can be found if you click 'Discord' in the links section on the left side of the page.
The earliest runs I know of are ZtarZtorm's run (https://www.speedrun.com/sly2/run/8m737wy0) and Cooopercrisp's runs (i.e. )
The Cairo skips were known about for a long time, however only performed through the use of cheats or mega jump. The setups used in runs today were found by UberNero and Zryu in a collaboration project which I believe lasted for multiple months back in summer/fall 2015. The skips were not found in sequence, but because of how 'chained triggers' works (devs call them 'TheMeta'), any triggers past a skipped trigger would not be active, so if you skipped one part you couldn't beat the rest of the level like normal. So in order for any of the skips to be useful in runs (to be able to beat Cairo) the final part (Carmelita skip) had to be found
I believe the skips were found in the order of 'Murray Skip' (not usable in runs on its own) -> 'Carmelita skip' (now both these skips could be used in runs) -> 'Bentley skip'. I believe the first run to use Murray + Carmelita skip was Mikl's 5:45 (https://www.speedrun.com/sly2/run/wzp1gnrz).
For more details (like how they were discovered) I'd ask Zryu/Nero or join the runner's discord (linked from all the Sly games' links section, found on the left side when on the main page: https://www.speedrun.com/sly2).
The Cairo skips have remained very much the same as to how it was back when it first was discovered. The only difference are faster routes out of bounds and riskier/faster movement near bottomless pits and clips to get out of bounds.
The most recently discoverd skips are more rooted in theory than before; almost like an extension of previous knowledge. If you take 'Fake Floor' for example. It has been expanded to speed up the act of killing guards faster (Disguise Bridge) and complete hacking levels out of bounds (Bentley/Murray Team Up), while previously all use of Fake Floor was strictly to skip cutscenes, either through failing the job mid-cutscene (Code Capture, Stealing Voices, A Friend in Need), hitting the job trigger differently (Boardroom Brawl) or dying mid-cutscene (Charged TNT Run).
There has also been a few cases of rediscovering skips that were brushed aside years ago to being "too difficult", which are now implemented into the run and considered easy (i.e. Blimp HQ CSS #1).
Basically yeah. The hard part is getting hold of a Korean account as you need a specific kind of Korean ID. Unless you happen to have a Korean friend, you probably have to purchase an account online (which is against PSN ToS). Also, I'm not sure whether there's a Korean version for vita or not, as no one has checked (as far as I know).
There's a guide (for PS3) here: https://www.speedrun.com/sly2/guide/ve38v
Looking at the reset speed alone, that's a ~30s reset which, if ran on the Korean version, could potentially make it the fastest version. A fast reset on a fat PS3 on the Korean version (with SSD) is ~39s.
Most SSDs are very similar in speed, but there are slight differences in write/read speeds. We're talking maybe a frame saved here and there at this point, as most SSDs are pretty darn fast. I personally use a Samsung 850 EVO 120GB which has a read speed of 540 MBps and a write speed of 520 MBps. Nothing over the top.
PS3 -Fat PS3 (any&) > Slim PS3 > Super Slim PS3 -SSD (any&&) > High RPM HDD > Low RPM HDD
and then for the game -Digital download from PSN -Korean (NTSC-J: KOR) > American (NTSC-U) > Eurpoean (PAL)
&as far as I know we haven't done proper testing on different fat PS3s. &&2.5" and with decent read/write speed
If you go to the main leaderboards you can check the filters to only show runs listed as PSN. Filter -> Platforms -> PSN Download. While this platform is named PSN Download, that is merely a name preset and we just stash all runs done on the remaster together as PSN Download, as PS3 is "reserved" for runs done on BCPS3. The best time on PSN is 1:02:27 by Oggy: https://www.speedrun.com/sly1/run/z0e46o4m
The trilogy disc version is likely the slowest version out there as the game restarts are much longer, as well as a notable pause between any dialogue in cutscenes (the case for Sly 2 and onwards, I assume it's that way in Sly 1 as well). As for digital versions, the NTSC version is slightly faster than the PAL version due to H&S skip, which allows for slightly faster game restarts (skips the health & safety warning every time you start the game).
I made a quick written guide that was basically instantly outdated from a big rule change which basically made all PS2 versions like 7 minutes faster, but I guess it might still be of use: https://goo.gl/SY8UJL
It appears the invite has become invalid. Use this link instead: https://discord.gg/SGNbcCX
Edit: Or use the "Discord" button located in the menu on the left side of the window (PC). That's a handy feature, didn't know that was a thing lmao
Might be worth mentioning here that this category was made an actual leaderboard category a couple of months back: https://www.speedrun.com/sly2/full_game#Any_w_cheats
Here's a quick guide I made when this was first brought up, and that I recently updated: https://www.speedrun.com/sly2/guide/cpttp
As for the fastest version, both PSN NTSC-U and PSN NTSC-J (KOR) for PS3 should be viable options. The differences in actual speed is negligible.
Ey, so the verdict is here. SD vs HD DOES matter... for PAL.
SD on PAL (PAL game and PAL PS3) gives 50fps, which caps the speed from the table clip to 5/6th (83%) of the regular speed. By setting my PAL PS3 + copy to SD I was able to replicate.
In early 2017, it was discovered that through watching an animated cutscene on a file while loading into a new file, it would skip that cutscene on that fresh file. This was ultimately banned at the time, but was brought back up recently.
One reason for the change happening this time around when it was shut down a year ago, is the recent change to the timing rules. You can read more about that here: https://www.speedrun.com/sly1/thread/pt7dn
The community came together in our runner's Discord server (link in https://www.speedrun.com/sly1/resources ) and the mod team decided that a runner's poll was the way to go in this situation. The poll ended at a total of 65% - 35% for allowing the animated cutscenes to be skipped using this method.
On one hand, this can be considered file manipulation, as we use a different file to watch the cutscene, and save the change to a fresh file. It's definitely a gray area. While on the other hand, this is a huge quality of life change that will make running the game much more bearable. We no longer have to watch minutes on minutes of unskippable cutscenes every reset, in a reset heavy early-game. The community ultimately decided to sacrifise some speedrunner's integrity for a quality of life change that will make running the game more enjoyable for most.
Once the decision was made, the mods had to decide how to integrate this change to the leaderboards. After some confusion, we ultimately decided to simply allow the change, and make no adjustments to the boards. There was a brief moment where the leaderboards were being adjusted, but that change was quickly reverted, sorry about that.
Here's a guide on how to set up a file for the cutscene skips: https://www.speedrun.com/sly1/guide/i3si6
The skips only works on PS2 (and BC PS3) to our knowledge, but PSN can skip the same cutscenes by restarting the game.
Questions or any sort of feedback is very welcome!
If I'm not mistaken, on PAL you're forced to select 50hz vs 60hz on boot-up, which makes for slower resets and therefore worse reset efficiency. I also noticed that the order of the TMs in the mart in the under is different. Hidden Power (TM10) is at the top of the TMs on PAL, while at the very bottom on NTSC-U.
PAL: 
NTSC-U: 
(Screenshots are from my PB//PAL vs Exarion's PB//NTSC-U)
I actually completely missed this thread until now. Would've been easier visible if you posted it specifically under Sly 2.
Given the low amount of runners, as well as the lack of bigger skips (biggest set of skips are in Cairo and save 4 minutes, everything else save a minute or less), a glitchless category wouldn't really serve a purpose. There aren't enough runners to justify adding it, and while we constantly do minor glitches as part of the general movement, a glitchless category would be too similar to regular any%. The current any% category also serves as an All Jobs/Mission category as there are no job or episode skips.
Edit: I actually did a glitchless run and you can see for yourself how similar it is.
EDIT, August 12th: We've since this change allowed for watching cutscenes on different files and saving them to your starting file. It is also worth noting that all runs should start with 0 coins collected and 5 extra lives available.
The way the run has been timed until now, one would start the timer on new game, then load right away to skip the opening cutscene, which also resets all changes done to your file. This means that in order to change camera settings, one would have to waste time during the run by changing the settings while the timer is running.
Furthermore, the 'New game glitch' has been brought to our attention as a potential way to skip the opening cutscene. See Zen's video here, where he pokes the subject:
Our initial discussion was whether this should be allowed or disallowed, as it could prove to be useful and faster, but happens before starting a new game. Given timing definitions, the approach we deemed optimal is to begin timing on the initial 'Start' input to skip the game boot cinematic, as this sets up the glitch that would be used in the run.
This ultimately means starting the timer earlier than traditional means, which makes this method simply break even with skipping the cutscene by loading. However, the PSN version can't load to skip cutscenes, and this would easily save 40s there. This introduces two different ways of starting the timer, based on the strats used, as 'first input' would be defined differently between the strats.
Instead of introducing this inconsistent way of timing, why not find a solution that solves the issues regarding camera settings as well?
With inspiration from communities like Ratchet and Clank and Fallout, we want to introduce starting the timer on file load (saved past the opening cutscene). This allows changing settings as you please, while keeping the actual time difference to the current methods to a minimum. Runs may be adjusted by 2-3s.
Please keep in mind that your file should still have 0 coins collected and 5 extra lives available, to keep the file as close to a fresh file as possible.
Consider the New game glitch allowed (faster for PSN), then instantly obsoleted or walked around by the new timing rules. We are only able to change the timing rules this way since all versions can now skip the opening cutscene.
Thoughts?
Here is a video showcasing the new starting point. The timer is, of course, slightly desynced because HDMI on Elgato :)
I tried to optimize the pathing a bit. A quick timing suggests that a flawless, instant clip should save somewhere around 5s.
So what happens, or how/why does this happen? In Sly 2 and Sly 3, whenever a character is put in a tight spot where they don't fit, the game tries to push them out. In Sly 1 this is strictly known as catapults, or proxies, but in Sly 2 and 3 it's more like clipping or zipping. The character clips out, often through walls or something similar. The momentum is often carried, if in combination with i.e. running or paragliding, a clip will result in a more traditional proxy launch.
https://www.speedrun.com/slyfecta
Would it be possible to set this game as a Multi-game? thx
After a discussion with the other leaderboard moderators, we came to the conclusion of allowing the use of the Korean PSN version for speedruns, which makes it the fastest known version. Here's the story:
It was previously thought that dubs didn't matter for Sly 2 (as opposed to Sly 3), but this was proven to only be the case for dubs available on the PAL version. Suappi realized that both Korean and Japanese have a faster dub than English. See his language comparison between English, Japanese and Korean here (PS2):
The Japanese version was never released to PSN, but the Korean version was. Oggy therefore tried his luck and ended up getting his hands on said version. After some initial testing, it was clear that Korean could save over 10 minutes! Here is a 5:16:40 run I did on the Korean dub, which is the current WR:
Here's the catch. In order to get your hands on the Korean PSN version, one needs a Korean PSN account. In order to make a Korean PSN account, one needs a so-called "I-Pin", only acquirable through the use of a Korean phone no. or something comparable to a Korean social security no. In other words: We can't simply make an account and purchase the game. We need to use an existing Korean account, or have a Korean person buy and download the game for us.
This is where the gray zone kicks in, and why this wasn't immediately allowed. The easiest way to get your hands on the version is to buy an account online, then add funds through 'Live Cards' and buy the game that way. It is specifically noted in the PSN Terms of Service ( https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/legal/terms-of-service ) that selling/buying an account is not allowed. However, the ToS appears targeted to online play and also states that "cheat, exploit or use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional game mechanics in PSN Services or any of its products or services to obtain an unfair advantage" is also not allowed. In other words, they indirectly claim speedrunning is against the ToS. The ToS is likely extremely wide so that Sony can strike whoever they want. ((Personal opinion))
We would like to make it abundantly clear that should runners get the Korean version of the game, they run the risk of those ToS violations.
Despite this, all four of the leaderboard moderators voted for allowing it, pointing at previous examples within the speedrunning community. PC speedrunners allow the use of torrenting games to obtain pre-patched versions of games to speedrun on, and communities have allowed niche, rare and/or expensive consoles in the past (as long as they were "official" consoles) to save time in loads and/or lag.
There was also talk about splitting the leaderboards to maintain the current leaderboards; that isn't happening. There was also some arguments for adding a 'language' variable, but that was shut down in favor of simply using the already existing 'Platform' variable.
The main reason why I haven't done this for Sly 3, or even Sly 2 100% is simply lack of runners and therefore lack of competition.
