In Big 20 #18 we had the goal of "Score 25 points". This was a fairly unique goal compared to the others on the leaderboard because it didn't require running the clock -- in fact, running the clock was bad!

I am looking at playing all the games from the Big 20 in a speedrunning sense, but there don't seem to be any categories for this game that don't involve running the clock. 25 points might not be the best option but any category that would involve people playing the game but not running out the clock after hitting the point threshold would be a welcome change. The "49 points category" is close, but at the end you still need the clock to run out.

I agree this is a good idea. I mentioned this exact idea on these forums almost 3 weeks ago: https://www.speedrun.com/tecmo_super_bowl/forums/r9kny

It's been met with mostly responses from people who want this kind of category. The only debate seems to be if it's different enough from the current Points%, or if it should be a miscellaneous category. I suppose I'm waiting for enough responses before I make a decision. Points% was created as an alternative to "killing the clock" which is the worst part of most sports speedruns. However I made it a few years ago and it wouldn't be fair to delete that category since people have put work into it. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I wish I had made the timer stop once X points were obtained.

But anyone interested in this kind of category, please either reply here or the other thread linked above. If enough people tell me they will run this category, it will be created.

We had 65+ people run "get 25 points" on Saturday if that counts for something

I maintain my position in general, but I am also inclined to add categories like this when there is visibly high demand. (I did the same for a new Tetris category from the last Big20.) If a new category is immediately going to get at least a dozen submissions there isn't really a downside; if the category eventually goes a year or two without a submission it can be removed at the discretion of the Mods.

25 points seems a bit low but I'll tell you what: I'm willing to add the category if you can get 10% of those 65+ people (6-7 people) to post here supporting the idea, and say they will submit their runs. If not, there's not enough demand to create this category until more people visibly show interest. I know that people have recently ran this for Big 20, but until the people who participated show up here asking for the category, I don't believe they have intent to submit.

If 10% of the runners post here, I will consider that "visibly high demand" and create the category to suit Big 20's requirement. Otherwise this demand seems purely hypothetical.

EDIT - I'm aware there's a Discord. A screenshot from there would also suffice, but I'd need names not just reaction emotes. But as it currently stands, I'm going to need more than one person from this group of 65+ showing interest if I'm going to take my time and create this category specifically for the Big 20 rules. I want this category as well, but the point requirements would be significantly higher if I had a say. However I'm willing to defer the point requirements to 25 if there's enough interest.

I will send it their way! Also I'm fine with an alternative point #, the points chosen were based on allowing two ways to get victory and to keep the goal within our time constraints. It matching the super bowl winning point total was a coincidence, we were first!

I am interested in running this category, 25 points worked out well but I would be open to it being higher.

Thanks for your consideration.

I am interested in running "Score 25 points" category. Maybe "Score 99 points", which is max points you can score, can be a category too.

Yeah 100% understandable Overswarm. Especially when you're doing 20 games in a marathon setting, the goals need to be fairly reasonable and achievable. With that said, I will keep an eye here and as soon as I see 5 more people, the category will be created. If anyone has an opinion regarding the point requirements for the run, feel free to share them as well.

I like the idea of stopping the clock once X points is achieved. I've been doing "10 Goals" in Ice Hockey as well as "100 Points" in Double Dribble, and I think this translates well to Tecmo Super Bowl.

EDIT: 4 more, lordoflinal posted as I was making dinner/delayed posting.

I vote Nice%

69 points!

I like Schmidtty's idea from the other thread. Make it 10 scores instead of some point total, so the meta won't rely entirely upon fumbles :)

That would still rely on fumbles

Regardless of which method is used, fumbles will be the quickest way. Schmidtty's scoring system does give a little more value to the safeties though. We're going to assume the extra point is pretty much free because it is: in standard football, a touchdown is 7 points & safety is 2. With Schmidtty's method, a touchdown is 2 points & safety is worth 1. So you're making a safety worth half a touchdown. This would make fumbles less important, but overall they're still better than any other scoring method. Last but not least, this would require runners to mentally track their point value instead of relying on the in-game scoreboard which is a step I'm not sure everyone wants.

Also I could be wrong, but I don't think fumbles are reliable enough to be considered a meta strat. You can stack the stats of course, and increase the probability of opponents fumbling, but fumbles are still RNG. Even once a fumble occurs, there's no guarantee the ball won't hop into an opponent's possession first. I don't see how anyone would rely on fumbles as a strat, unless you're really trying to optimize the run.

There's a few tests I'd like to run on TSB this weekend before I solidify the category, but it is coming. Just to get an idea of how frequent fumbles can happen, and test what is reasonable for the points requirement (might try 99 we'll see). However I'm still very much open to any comments or opinions before it becomes finalized.

Update: I won't be making any new categories. This whole experience has burned me out in terms of wanting to volunteer more time to moderate games. I know most people who posted want this category to exist, but it's just been an unnecessary stress on me that I don't need right now. Fumbles are clearly more broken than I'm aware of, and I have no clue what a generally agreeable point requirement would be. I've been told 25 points, 69 points, 99 points, and then an entire point system was created to make the category less of a "fumble fest". I tried playing some TSB myself to see what a fair point requirement would be, and it took me the entire game to score 51 points. This is when I hit the realization that I need to pass the torch to someone else, because I no longer have the desire to volunteer time to this game. With that said, SchmidttyGames will be taking my place. Have a good one.

I've had the time this morning to do a deep dive on this topic. These are my current thoughts.

All 4 current categories are effectively "Drain The Clock", and they do cover a really fun variety of ideas. But it wouldn't hurt for the game to have some alternative playstyle goals to attract other runners. As such, I am personally inclined to create both the Big 20's "Score 25 Points" and "10 Scoring Plays" because they both race real time with no consideration to the in game clock (as far as I'm aware).

Rest assured that the current 4 categories will NOT be touched in any way. I am very protective of runners achievements and I will not tear down categories people have put hard work in to unless the entire community is in support of it.

This is where I would like the discussion to restart, if possible. I am fully aware of the dangers of "overloading" a game with categories no one cares to run, which is why I don't want to make this choice without the input of the community at large.

I'd definitely agree with not touching any existing categories, there's still a lot to be uncovered in them too.

HighScore% has been created! Score as much as possible in a single game! Submissions will have Milliseconds enabled. Input your score in BOTH the MS category under time and in the Points category. The category will sort by "highest time". If you score 90, your time should look like this. 0:00.090

Good Luck everyone! Looking forward to seeing what you all come up with for this new challenge!