Hello, I was wondering if the mods here would be able to add a new category: Legend%. The criteria being that the Legend achievement (or simply meeting the criteria to get it) must be achieved upon defeating the Mayor. I know that this might not be too different from Heroic any%, but I think not being able to grind specific boss weapons without disabling autosave (and thus denying Level 23 from ever being achieved which lets you use a bunch of powerful shit in Zone 5), is more then enough to justify the new category.

Besides, Legend runs are a staple of Sonny 2 and I think it'd be a good idea to include a speedrun category for them. I've just finished routing a run (and boy was it a pain), and plan on recording one soon.

Cheers lads.

Well, the way it is currently handled, the 100% run also includes Legend% as you need to unlock that achievement to even get to zone 7 (at least, if we assume that you begin from a clean file). Also, as long as there is no actual evidence of a Legend% run I won't touch anything yet. However, if you manage to actually finish one in a decent time (whatever "decent" means for Legendary%, that is), you may simply add it as a regular heroic% run with the added note that it is legendary% and then I will ad Legendary% as a category to the leaderboard (and maybe remove the other still unused categories until someone actually starts to run them)

As for myself ... I am definitely interested in 100%, probably as a psychological (because their postgame is beyond ricidulous), but unfortunately I am not finding time/motivation to rout something as big from scratch. So an actual Legendary% route would be amazing for that as well as it could serve as a solid basis for 100%

by the way, regarding potential categories. For now I would assume that all we really need for now would be the following:

• any% (basically replacing the current "any% (easy)")
• any% (Legend)
• 100%

If at some point, someone actually wants to start either different classes or difficulties (or stuff like "all achievements"), we can always add more categories to the leaderboard.

IMO 100% should be an all achievements run while also fully completing the game, as that's what a 100% run in other games traditionally is.

My current setup for Legend% involved a glitch I found on some of the old flash forums that allows you to glitch saves and use skills from multiple classes. I start off as a Hydraulic, rolling through the first area with Hot skills until I get to level 8. I then respec, put a single point into Cold Neurology, then glitch the save to become a Psychological. I get to level 10 and unlock Ultimatum. Ultimatum + Cold Neurology gives you 100% damage reduction for 20 turns. The only risks are dispelling from the few enemies in Zone 3-4 who can electro bolt or shock therapy, and the Android Guard's Analyze ability which still causes enemies to do 120 damage to you. I tried routing an Any% run using this strat as you can literally remove Roald and Vera from your party for most of the game and save time by not having their turns, but the rough estimate time I got wasn't much better than your Any% run so I didn't bother.

The main reason I really wanted the category is because I have no interest in Zone 6 and 7 honestly. Sekiro's currently taking up all of my time but once I'm finished with it I'll try to get a run out.

Interesting, so there ARE useful glitches in sonny 2. In that case, even a glitchless/no major glitches category could be interesting. But then we would need to clarify what qualifies as a (major) glitch. multi-class is an obvious case but there are also AI glitches (entering certain fights alone) and that "draggin items to the next stage" stuff (which wouldn't qualify as "major" but is technically still a glitch).

Regarding that immunity strats. Dunno how good it is to go for them on easy as the enemys are mostly of no danger to you anyways, but on heroic this is definitely invaluable, but even on easy ... I can imagine that there are some REALLY fast combinations that you can run with that glitch. Will definitely look into that myself once I find time to do sonny-related stuff again.

But generally ... the entire leaderboard needs a full clean-up, for sure. .... and runners.

Btw, regarding that glitch ... obviously it's necessary to start from a "clean file" for any category so it will be necessary to create all necessary save files during the run, but that much should be obvious, I suppose (I also just added that to the ruleset for all categories, just to be extra safe)

So uh... there's a problem here. I just did some testing tonight and I found a serious issue that could effect any runs of the game that allow glitches. It takes a bit to explain so I thought I'd make a video and just show you:

As for glitches, that's a tough one. Technically level 1 respec is a glitch, so that wouldn't be allowed really. Also AI glitching, especially in the Baron fight, can occur completely accidentally during runs if Roald and Vera end up dead, so I don't think you can count that as a glitch unless you want people to reset if it ever accidentally happens.

Thanks for the video, it's really informative. Big props for that.

Regarding the chapter-skip-issue. Generally, the skip itself is not a problem for any% as that category is literally "start from X, get to Y". For 100% it will probably be impossible to utilize it, because the very definition for that category demands to beat every (non-training) stage and thus skipping stages would be banned.

Your Idea to ban out-of-game actions during the run sounds plausible to me and also was my first Idea while watching the video. Will add this to the leaderboard-ruleset for all categories. It might also be useful to explicitly require that one HAS to start from a "file" with no existing saves, but that I won't do just yet - I wanna hear other opinions first.

For glitchless. The problem with banning level 1 respec is, that you always get the 19 extra stat points when you respec for the first time. So the only way to avoid that glitch would be to completely ban respeccing which is definitely not something I would want to do

E: btw., Hydra skip should actually be possible as hydra is not the last stage in zone 4.

I just created Legend% as a category on the leaderboard. Also, I noted something else while playing around with the glitch.

You actually don't have to create the initial file (the one you are inheriting skills from) on heroic difficulty because the difficulty is eventually determined from the file you are merging into. However, that would theoretically allow to play almost the entire game on easy mode and then switch to heroic for the final fight and still get the achievement (at least that is what I assume, I didn't actually try it out yet) which kinda defeats the purpose of the category.

So I'd say that "playing on heroic for the entire time" should be a requirement for Legend%

Good call, I'd agree with that. Also thanks for pointing out the Hydra thing, I actually forgot that it's not the last fight lol. That's really good since Hydra's Potent Toxin is the biggest pain in the ass for the 20-turn-invulnerable-no-allies run. I also didn't realize that respeccing always gave you the free skill points, guess since I always did the level 1 respec I never actually tried it, so it'd 100% not be a glitch then.

I played around a little with that class "merging" glitch and it seems that we have a little problem:

Apparently it IS actually possible to skip the entire game with that glitch, even without the need to erase save files. All you have to do is to have an existing save game and at least one empty save slot, you go to the PvP Arena, select the existing file as Player one and the empty one as player two, performing the glitch as usual. But after that, you can also create the new save file over an existing one and the glitch STILL works.

Moreover, it appears that it actually IS possible to skip bosses. If you reached the final fight of a stage and then perform the glitch, the game puts you back on the map you have been before. However, it becomes possible to access the next zone via the world map.

Considering this, I see three possibilities:

• allow the glitch and accept, that any% might become "stage 1 simulator".
• ban the glitch and forfeit the possibility to do cool things with class-merging
• make a more complex ruling, but that again would appear too arbitrary for my liking.

I think, there is no better solution than to ban this glitch, even though I really don't like to.

Edit: come to think of it ... I don't know if you can actually get to the "congratulations" screen this way. If not, it might not be neccesary to ban the glitch. I will test that now and see what happens.

Edit2: Okay, so you can't get to the congratulations screen by using that glitch, so you have to at least fight the mayor. I'm afraid, this is still too game-breaking though as all you have to do is to make sure, that you are able to win that fight (shock combo anyone?) and then you can basically skip the entire rest (except for cutscene only stages which also give you a nice chunk of experience).

Ah, I see. That pretty much kills all motivation I had for doing a Legend% run then. The whole reason I sought out new Glitches was to try anything to make it a little easier. An unglitched Legend% is basically lots of resetting to Hound fights in Zone 5 and praying you get a Darkstaff drop off Clemons. Until I can find a way to make it a little less tedious, I don't really think I'll run it.

Edit: Just looked something up. Apparently performing the glitch doesn't even give you the Legend achievement at the end of the game, so it wouldn't have worked for my purposes anyways. I'm so sad.

That's definitely unfortunate. I was actually looking forward to see the strategy you are using but well, guess it can't be helped and it is more than understandable that you don't want to run Legend% by regular means, because it perhaps one of the most frustrating categories on speedrun.com.

But to sum it up.

The glitch (let's call it "PvP save corruption" because that's pretty much what it is) allows you to essentially "skip" any stage you want as well as class-"merging". However, two limitations apply.

1. you won't get the legend achievement if you use the glitch
2. you can no longer beat the game if you skip mayor (because it registers the fight as "done" without actually doing it thus rendering the congratulations screen inaccessible)

Well, considering these two factors I will make a (temporary?) ruling. At least not, until someone finds a route, that would turn the run into an uncompetetive category, which appears not to be the case for now.

Thus, PvP save corruption is allowed for now.