Making a new thread because people might not see the old one if I bump it.
http://www.speedrun.com/gta/thread/egkdw
We voted to allow memory monitoring software as long as it can be done on on paper: "2 - put "if it can be done with pen and paper, allow it" in the rules, applied to memory monitoring (so that 100% checklist and autosplitters are still fine) "
As you may know with VC, a new trick involves waiting exactly 53.5 seconds and you have 200 MS to trigger the glitch (SORRY FOR THE PIGEON ENGLISH).
I'm making this thread because I've seen in 2 chats now that the autosplitter show begin (and I assume end) the timer when you start the waiting period. I'm fairly sure this is tool assisted in every way but going by the rule we allowed, this may not be considered tool assisted.
Sure you wouldn't count on pen and paper but you could time it manually without an autosplitter, it basically raises a question if this should be allowed and if we should have a vote. Give suggestions below please.
(Sorry if I ramble in this)
This doesn't fall under pen and paper, in my opinion, since pen and paper on other things can be 100% consistent, but this will never be. So, nah, autosplitter on those things should be illegal.
I would argue for banning timer programs altogether from VC any% from now on. Rely on IGT / any other "in-game" way of timing or it's a TAS.
Autosplitters should have been banned from the previous thread, along with other memory monitoring. We almost made a strat for GTA3 Any% that would have needed an autosplitter for timing, but now it may be a real issue with VC.
Good thing you brought it up.
using an autosplitter to time the wait shouldn't be allowed using any manual timer (livesplit or any pc program or on you phone or just a clock or even a métronome) should be allowed
Personally i don't want autosplitter to be banned for usual purposes, as i like having consistent splits after the run and i can't even "cheat" with it because i don't even see my splits when running the game
I agree with lev pretty much, I specifically said that autosplitters are debatably cheating at the time within IRC, but the pen & paper rule at the time worked just fine.
I don't see an issue with using some way to measure real time for references in-game, since that doesn't really let you do anything new that you wouldn't have been able to do if you were left with only the game (in-game clock). One could argue that for this reason, external timer references should be banned, but on the contrary it goes to show that it literally doesn't matter.
As for using an autosplitter to show values from memory addresses, that's just cheaty as fuck. That's not what autosplitters should be used for anyway.
Once again, you can't really verify if someone's using any external tools to help himself with the run unless you stand behind his back, so even if you ban it, it's pointless. But ye, sure, using autosplitter/memory monitoring to get a perfect timing in new any% setup isn't legit and if you do it you should feel very bad about it. It's actually extremely easy to write a script that makes a step backwards, waits x amount of time (autohotkey can easily use miliseconds) and then makes a step forwards. All we can do is believe that no one actually does that. Just keep in mind that someday someone will try to do that and you'll probably have to use argument about grind to reject that specific run.
As long as the input is manual, I think anything is fine. Autosplitters/checklists don't have manual input, they have automatic input. For their intended uses, that's fine, since they merely replace video editor timing/pen and paper tracking respectively. (Although the checklist is a dodgy case because forgetful people exist). Regardless, that's not the issue at hand.
A timer is fine as long as it's started manually. This can be a wsplit instance, phone, hourglass, rube goldberg contraption, whatever. As long as it's started manually and not by the game.
The point about 'we should allow it because we can't prove that everyone is not using it' is dumb, because we also can't prove exactly that someone didn't modify some tiny variables in the game to give them a slight upperhand in RNG. There's this thing called trust. There's also this thing called calling someone out if you suspect them (just be sure to do it properly)
External timers should be fine imo. Just like how using a pen and paper is fine, or how using a chair to sit on during runs is fine, or how using a screwdriver (a literal tool) to assemble your pc upon which you speedrun is fine.
Gotta agree with what's been said, autosplitting the enter/exit is cheating. Then, I wouldn't need to worry about starting my timer or even looking at reference points. All of that is taken care of when the value changes. Manually timing it is fine, though.
