yeah both types of out of bounds work the same where it's just hold A for x frames before getting put down. except that you can only start holding A once lakitu has moved you to the correct location, which doesn't matter for if you fall in the void, but otherwise you just don't have enough frame to charge the boost. so you need lakitu to be rotating you for some amount (i think around 45 degrees going by memory?) while in the correct spot so you can get it

i hope that helps!

Ah I see! that's interesting they aren't actually frame-perfect, I just checked for myself and saw that the second time there's 6 extra frames before pressing the button. The discrepancy could maybe be explained by a strange sequence of inputs the runner chose for the macro? or perhaps that the macro itself is flawed due to some sort of hardware issue, or maybe a framerate difference making the intervals inconsistent.

A 6 frame difference is significant though, I'm not sure it's reasonable to deduce that anything I mentioned would cause a gap that large. The video does seem very strange to me, it would be nice to have assurance that the run is legit, if the runner is willing to provide an explanation of the strange things in the video, or a full session video or live stream, or something like that. I respect your decision though! I wouldn't want to discredit someone without certainty :) thank you very much for the quick reply!! Thank you for moderating this game :) and have a good day!!

Hey! just the other day I became interested in this category and noticed a comment on the current WR (9.183 by nyossu) video that reads:

Cheated

You're macroing restarts and checking the footage later. That's why the audio queue for the run being over then restarted have the exact same cadence at the exact same timing.

Have you also inputted your drops frame-perfectly?

The "continue to next round" reaction that you have is one that has never been seen throughout history.

How many people do you know that have gotten a WR on an upcoming title and insta-clicked "redo"?

I'm no expert on the game but the evidence seems compelling. The setup before the actual run looks like just spamming A without resetting when you know the run is dead, and as pointed out the sequence of inputs after failing is the exact same in both instances showed in the video.

Should it be removed?

We know about this 👍 thanks for the concern tho! let us know if you find anything else intriguing :)

Hey, sorry it's been so long I did some more thinking since then and I have a couple things to say.

Firstly, I think your logic is slightly flawed here: [quote]The problem with adding a glitchless category is that there are current runs that would actually fall into the category, contrary to not a single run on the Standard leaderboard having z-tech in it. Because of this, having a glitchless category would be extremely confusing, and as moving over people's runs goes against many things: Some people wouldn't want their time on a different leaderboard, it wouldn't be accurate, and it would make the main category a messy combination of both.[/quote] The fact is that each run fits into both categories, even though none of them used z-tech. Since the site rules don't allow copying leaderboards a choice had to be made about which leaderboard would be the "original" and got to keep all the old runs. To me, because of all the shortcuts involved, the unified category always felt like the "unrestricted" category, and if I were forced to choose I would prefer my runs to stay in the current "unrestricted" category rather than "Standard" because that's where I was submitting them to originally. So I don't think it's right to say that we can't have a new category because people might want their times on a different leaderboard, because you only need to change your perspective a bit to see that that already happened with z-tech.

One quick side note to that is that I didn't see much official discussion about which would be the main category before the decision was made to split them, which was upsetting to me. Although it seems to have worked out well enough, and my poll results afterwards showed the majority would've wanted this, so I can't deny that the outcome was for the best, and I don't think it needs to change or be reevaluated.

I like your idea to add it as a category extension, especially since that creates potential for more categories to add there like shine thief and whatever else we can think of. I'm not sure if it would fit with the format to add all cups as well as ACT for a category extension, if it can then great but otherwise just ACT is fine with me. I think having it there is better than nothing, and if it gets enough attention then we can pick up this discussion again. Until then I just want to let the people know that I don't think there's anything wrong with the possibility of adding it as a new category.

Thanks for reading, I know I've been on about this for a while now but I think this is a good compromise :)

Something I've been thinking about since the new category for ztech was made, is the possibility of a "non-glitch" category, where no shortcuts are allowed, and no other glitches like ztech.

Historically this category wasn't really warranted since when the game was first being run there were only 1 or 2 shortcuts that were too impactful of the run, and it became kind of the culture of the game that we'd have just a single category for MKDD.

Now that we've broken that barrier with ztech, I think a new category for non-glitch is warranted, after all it's a standard category in every other Mario Kart game.

I brought this up in the discord server a while ago, but my idea was shot down because people seemed to think that the creation of that new category wouldn't be feasible, that it was impossible to create the new category because of rules about where players might want their runs on the leaderboards. I only just read the site's rules about stuff like this, and it seems like there isn't actually anything wrong with it

feel free to read: https://www.speedrun.com/knowledgebase/moderation-rules

the most relavent line to me is "Do not list a player's runs on a leaderboard if they explicitly do not want it listed.", some people argued that it's wrong to make the non-glitch category, because the people who have already done non-glitch runs might not want their runs on the main category knowing there's a non-glitch category. But the rules say specifically that those players have to say, and if they do say then it shouldn't be too hard to move their run to the non-glitch category.

And for those wondering, the category wouldn't involve copying any runs over automatically, it would be treated like any new category, it starts empty and people can add runs if they want to, including past runs that happen to follow the rules at the time.

My final point will be about changing the game, people have said the ztech completely changes how the game is played, and at the end of the day i have to agree, but shortcuts, in my opinion, are much more impactful. As far as timesave, ztech can save 30sec in ACT on a good run at top level, but the Bowser's Castle optimal shortcut on its own can save over a minute. Not only that, but the shortcut is very hard, as are some other shortcuts, and in a way that is definitely different from normal driving, and i think could be scaring players away from running the category, seeing if they get to top level they'd have to do all these shortcuts.

That's all I have for now, please consider what I've said, and let me know what you think :)

yep! there is :) not on speedrun.com though

here's the link: https://mariokart64.com/

ill say for now that so far in my testing DDD is the only track that isn't only a couple seconds faster than it would be otherwise, and that the large majority of the tracks don't benefit from z-tech (BP, MB, DC, WS, SL?, MuC, DKM, WC, BC, RR)

SL i haven't tested much, i imagine it could be faster but i definitely wouldn't go for it

LC and PB each are definitely worth going for and seem to save up to 3 or 4 seconds on a good run

MaC i've gotten pretty unlucky on so far in my runs but have still beaten my non-ztech time by a second, i can easily imagine this track being at least 5 seconds faster on a good run

DDJ is a weird one, im sure it saves time but i haven't been able to get the shroom to last long enough to cover 2 ramps, likely because during the fall animation when you go off the ramp makes you unable to switch characters while the golden shroom timer keeps ticking down. and since there's only 2 shroomspots anyways im guessing you'd get similar results without ztech, if you just bag normally for triple shroom and star or something like that

YC is like DDJ but more in ztech's favour, there's more offroad that you can cut with the golden than in DDJ and the falling animation timer is a lot less impactful, i haven't gotten to test this one a lot either but i bet it would be at least as good as LC and PB

there's still more testing to do, but i at least want to urge people not to judge ztech by mushroom cup alone, or DDD alone. i want all of you to try it for yourselves and see if you think it changes the game enough to warrant a new category

yo, just yesterday Ivy Rose discovered something new called "Z-Tech", which basically lets you massively extend the duration of a golden mushroom by constantly switching characters.

there's already a lot of discussion going on about it in the discord server (which you should all join), but for those who are still doing runs who aren't in it i thought i'd mention it here

here it is in action:

new runs using this aren't being accepted for now, until we decide what to do

try it out! let us know what you think :)