I did a few ILs today of the NES port, so after scrolling through the page to find the correct IL to submit to, I noticed that there were additional variables that were assigned to each level (all platforms) that could be selected for the NES levels I completed. This is a little confusing during the submission process, and was wondering what the purpose of having separate sub variables for platforms and ILs separated by platform?
It's redundant on NES levels.
It's necessary on ports that share all the same levels (DOS/Amiga) to distinguish between them.
This was done to save on levels; so DOS/Amiga would have 120 levels, instead of creating 240 levels for each DOS/Amiga.
I apologize in advance if i mix it up. It won't be on purpose. but just focusing on NES for now. but plan on moving consoles after
i do understand the tediousness of doing each level for each system and can wait / assist in any way.
ultimately am rerouting the current any% and like that each level has an IL. this lets me basically do it little by little. once i complete the ILs for that console. i plan on doing the full game attempts with the improvements we found.
thank you for having both the ILs and the full game categories. i just want to make sure i submit them properly and dont cause you 100+ issues on each console :)
basically. i want to make sure im following the process correctly before doing bulk runs.
I've been adding the levels to leaderboard by console per request (since it takes a minute to set up).
If y'all would like me to add the GB levels, I'll be happy do so! Might take me a couple days though, so apologies for the delay. Feel free to run the levels so that can be submitted at a later date.
The submissions are fine.
However, looking over the leaderboard, there is a current issue with sr.com affecting how the level leaderboards appear. I'm going to bring it up with site staff to see if I can get the issue resolved.
no rush, but would like the hand held ports. but got weeks if not months before needed.
this is the first board ive seen setup like this. quite unique in its setup.
@NihilistComedyHour before adding the GBA categories, I would like to make a suggestion about the IL page (I'm not trying to come across as pushy, just wanting to help you out so there is less future work, and so that viewing ILs is easier for the runners).
Linked here is an idea of how the leaderboard could be structured: https://www.speedrun.com/dirt_3/levels , all lemmings levels would be listed on the left hand side, with individual platforms being removed, only showing the level number and name. Next, replace the Any% IL category with each individual platform, such as NES, GBA, SNES, etc. For ports that are the same, they can be listed in tandem, such as Amiga/Dos. Selecting the correct platform during submission will allow for distinction. Finally, removal of the subvariable system, which would allow for all levels to be viewed from the IL page, instead of having to click on each individual level, scrolling through the variables, and then checking the category.
Any levels that are available only on specific ports would be listed at the bottom, with each port that does not contain these levels to have a submission of 01 seconds, with the username "N/A" to signify that no runs will be accepted to these IL categories.
If you need any assistance with any changes to the page, or are opposed to this form of IL page formatting, please let me know! :)
I REALLY like that idea. the ILs would then display all of the times in a matrix on the IL all levels page.
could quickly scan times per port.
would be a lot of work on a board this size. would happily assist in that transformation though.
NCH if youd like to do this but would need help. would happily assist and would give back mod as soon as its migrated.
would be quite helpful in time scheduling runs. can quickly see what im getting into lol
Edit: on a side note. just realized you are the mod of the risk series. didnt even know risk had a series. i run the risk mobile / pc board and have for a few years.
probably gonna tear through the boards of the series, now that im aware of them. am curious though how the series is setup.
i inherited the current framework from the previous risk admin who basically made it and left. but its a really good setup for a few thousand ILs.
used to get some heat for the way it was setup. but going through the board category by category. actually found some mechanics in risk that basically broke the game and now is used as the premiere ranking strategy (my best win streak was 201 games in a row, usually average around 26 wins per loss now, mostly grand master / master ranked players).
actually had a channel / mod on the official risk discord for a bit.
if i could go back to the creation of the current risk board. id make some changes.
would you be open to some series suggestions, once i get more familiar with it?
The main issue you will run into here is with numbers. I guess the easiest way to point this out...
You Live and Lem is Level 18 on NES, Level 21 on Amiga/DOS, SMS, SNES, it's Level 20 on Windows 95, and Level 13 on the ZS and CPC.
So, with the statement "Any levels that are available only on specific ports would be listed at the bottom," isn't going to be quite accurate. You will not be able to align the level numbers to level names anymore. You could list all the names without numbers, putting N/A for the missing levels in various ports, but they will be sprinkled throughout the leaderboard, and will likely make up to over 50% of the leaderboard. I'm also not 100%, but pretty sure some levels will inevitably have to be out of order for some ports and not others.
Getting GB boards up would be no problem. I'll do that pending changes to the board.
Regarding Risk, I recall helping helping getting that board set up awhile back, as I tend do for people asking me to help set up a board within a Series of mod.
However, in an instance like this, where I have no familiarity with the game (I don't mess with mobile speedrunning generally and didn't anticipate getting the PC version and running it, though I own it now), I generally will get the base of the board set up, and make sure the point is functioning with the person who requested it as a mod, and then have off full Mod power in those instances. I mostly just make sure the series stays consistent and doesn't have issues, particularly in a franchise like this where the game is like the same name over and over.
Anyways, pretty sure that was back in the days when Otter was more active or whatever. Looks like he's still the full mod. I'm not a mod at all on that version of the game, and so I am not able to actually make any changes on that board are able to mess with moderator powers at this point. And actual site mod would have to make that adjustment.
I imagine if you have a thread over there outlining what you were wanting to do and you could garner some support, you could bring it up to the site mod and point out the only full mod isn't active anymore and no one can implement the changes.
So, I was looking over the IL situation more carefully; It seems to me that the simplest solution at the moment for at least making the IL board actually function, is to remove the sub variable from the IL boards, and just deal with splitting DOS/Amiga later in if/when it's determined to really be necessary.
With that gone, board functions again, at least.
think if you picked either level numbers or level names it would work pretty easily. it's having both that is causing the IL issue. if you just had level 1 2 3 ... 100 etc then ya can just categorize the consoles.
if you went by just level name same deal.
I think A or B would work, A+B does not really.
honestly kinda like vypr's format. it reminds me of other boards with lots of ILs. you can just look at the all levels page and see what consoles did what level faster.
granted lemmings is different as the levels are not the same, but anyone running that port, already know that. If the levels name match up. those can be used, if not, i'd just drop the level names and go to strictly numbers.
i get it would be disorganized if you want a specific run and only have the level name, but you could easily figure out / lookup what number that level is on the console.
right now the board doesn't even show times for maps being ran. the NES 001 Just dig for instance on the all levels page is blank, but multiple runs have been done on the NES subvariable. Only the DOS/Amiga show up.
so right now, at this moment. the board shows less than 10 runs for ILs. i understand that some may not lineup correctly, but let's at least get the 80% that aren't showing up now, at least showing up. then figure out a solution for the last 20%.
"think if you picked either level numbers or level names it would work pretty easily. it's having both that is causing the IL issue. if you just had level 1 2 3 ... 100 etc then ya can just categorize the consoles."
Either technically work; just pointing out that if you are putting in order of their names; then there will be gaps in basically most ports with those levels with N/A times. There is no actual way around this, at least with how the back end of the boards are currently set up.
Now if you just used numbers, and went with the port with the largest number of levels specific to Lemmings, which I believe would be 180 (though you might need a few extra to cover levels that are in other ports, but not Genesis, if there any to be accounted for).
So, yes, you could have Levels "1" - "180", and then all the N/A's for pretty much every port (with the exception of SNES's 125, all other versions are 120 levels or less), so that's 60 N/A time per port. But if you did it this way, all that N/A's would be listed at the bottom.
Though it should be noted, that if you were looking at all the times on "21", you'd actually be comparing different levels in reality. So, it wouldn't actually line up in that regards... you wouldn't actually be comparing the same level in the Genesis port to the level in the NES port.
Again, in the "Live and Let Lem" example, if you were looking at this hypothetical board, all the "21" Level times for SNES/Genesis would match up, so you'd actually have the times from the same levels next to each other to comparison. But on the NES column for "21", you'd be looking at a different level entirely, and to compare the NES column Level 21, you'd actually have to look at level "25" on Genesis to compare how that specific level actually differed on different platforms.
So if "A" is referring to Level Names, you'd have the exact same issue without numbers. "B", removing the names of the levels and leaving just the numbers would be possible, as described above.
"honestly kinda like vypr's format. it reminds me of other boards with lots of ILs. you can just look at the all levels page and see what consoles did what level faster."
I mean, it's pretty much an either/or scenario.
If you left the names and remove the numbers, that can be done, but you will have N/A's through the leaderboard, not at the end of all the other runs for that port. That would align all the levels correctly across all ports so that they can be compared, against one another (which the couple exceptions where the levels were replaced in one port for another).
If you left the numbers and remove the names, then all the N/A times would be listed at the bottom of each port, but the levels are not going to align, so you will not be comparing the same level across each column (with the exception of like the first couple levels).
"If the levels name match up. those can be used, if not, i'd just drop the level names and go to strictly numbers."
I mean, I'm not sure how that's really going to work with scenarios like this:
"Genesis 034 The ascending pillar scenario is the same level as DOS 037 Been there, seen it, done it."
I mean, like... maybe if I saw how that would be handled in a spreadsheet, that might give me an idea?
"right now the board doesn't even show times for maps being ran. the NES 001 Just dig for instance on the all levels page is blank, but multiple runs have been done on the NES subvariable. Only the DOS/Amiga show up.
so right now, at this moment. the board shows less than 10 runs for ILs. i understand that some may not lineup correctly, but let's at least get the 80% that aren't showing up now, at least showing up. then figure out a solution for the last 20%."
This was already fixed, per my last post, when I removed the sub variable. That's the result of a recent bug on SR.com, which I assume will never be fixed.
In any case, I don't really care either way, but yeah, I mean, I can't make the board do anything that's it not capable of doing; like there are actual limitations here. So, just want to be clear here, the resulting look of some of these proposes changes are not going to look exactly like they are worded in parts of this thread. That being said; I don't believe anyone who runs this game is going to object either way, as no one does IL runs, so I don't mind setting it up either way. But, just like I said, want to be clear here that the end result on same of these changes are not going to result in what is being hoped for in some parts here.
thank you for removing the subvariable.
i understand your explanation.
I would prefer level numbers and consoles with the NA's at the bottom. sounds like a good setup
and since nobody (except aparently me) runs the ILs. it would be helpful for your only IL runner.
would happily offer my time to do the transition, as to not cost you any extra time in migrating the board.
I think numbers will ultimately be easier to navigate.
Yeah, I remember back in the day trying to originally get the board set up, thinking it would be so nice and easy lmao. But as I started entering them in, I as I got like 10 levels in that is going to be more stupidly complicated that I could have imagined.
I should be able to get it all updated this week without much issue. I'm thinking that it might also help navigate the board if we used Fun 1, Fun 2, Fun 3, Tricky 1, etc. That will sprinkle in a few more N/A times in the middle and in the end, but it might look a little cleaner, and I think I can make like that work as well. Let me know if that seems workable.
And sorry for the longwindedness, lol, it's hard to articulate quickly some of the shortfalls on the backend on moderating for this site.
sounds good. but no worries if ya dont wanna.
think it would be a good move. but my interest in lemmings basically left tonight. goodluck with your board. gonna go be a "trash runner" with my "trash games."
your mobile risk board ya made. also has 5000 categories. just food for thought. if ya hate mobile games and hate boards with 1000s of categories.
just stop making them!
Hm, if no one is going to be submitting runs, then I will hold off on any changes pending whatever site wide changes to the IL boards they are supposedly working on.
