Hello! On the thread "Question about no hit runs", it was decided to add this passage to the full game no hit rules: "NOTE: You don't have to reset the whole game if you'll get hit. Resetting the level is fine. Just make sure that you get a No Hit star after the level." This was done because otherwise getting a run on a full game No Hit might be impossible.

However this makes the nature of No Hit single levels ambiguous: Is it still okay to use the perks that trade a lot of a player's health for other gains? (that's damage, but that's not a monster hit). Or, alternatively, is the only thing that matters the full health star at the end of the level, and if you get damaged by perks, you need other perks to heal yourself back before the level ends? Or are we going the full completely "no hit means no damage" for individual levels?

What do you think should be the full definition of a No Hit IL run? We already have different rules for IL and full game so it's not a problem if we make them a little more different.

Option 1: No damage taken in the run, even if you finish with a star.

Option 2: No hits from monsters, even if you finish with a star. Perk damage is ok.

Option 3: No hit from monsters, finishing with damage from perks is ok.

Option 4: Finishing with a star is all you need, even if a monster or a perk damages you in the middle of the run.

(If i forgot any possible combinations, please let me know or propose them below, but i think these are the most reasonable)

I would be okay with any of these decisions, but i think we should vote and write our decisions in the rules so this is more clear. Right now i have some runs where i lose health for perks but finish with a star, and i don't know if they would be allowed.

Frankly just having the star is enough, it makes verification much easier and it makes the run far less stressful and complex on the runner end as well.

With no comments against this on the past two weeks i agree. But if we settle on this, the category rules need to be edited, the current text is phrased like taking a single hit would invalidate runs.

Yeah I believe that just having the star at the end makes it less complicated for everyone but if people who run the game disagree then please let me know what you think.

Two thoughts occurred to me while i was recording one of these runs, please tell me what you all think:

1. Maybe we could have a third, middle-ground category called "Star". So in "Star" you can take damage as long as you finish with the "not a scratch" award, while "no hit" means no hits. The only downside i can see to this approach is having leaderboards be even more complex, so more categories means hitless runs would qualify for a max of 3 categories instead of the current two. Also, if we did this, it would be much easier and very important to rename the current no hit category to "star" and make an empty one called "no hit", since many of the runs already in our current "no hit" category only qualify as "star". Another positive would be allowing some future unborn superhuman to try and beat the full game in true hitless, instead of not even having a category for that.

2. Even if we decide not to separate categories for hitless and star, maybe we should rename our current no hit categories to "star" or "all stars"? Since that seems to be the spirit of what players need to go for, it's confusing to call it "no hit" if we decided to allow hits both in IL and Full Game runs

I think for what we do now the current system should work, In the interest of not making it too complicated. Because until the time comes where someone truly does beat the entire game pure hitless, the difference in getting the star or actually doing stages hitless is pretty minute IMO.

I have recorded a first All Stars run here to demonstrate:

(Still unsubmitted)

You can see starting from the hard levels my run is pretty different from if i had to reset the levels as soon as i got hit, i can run in and get damaged as long as i get heals mid-level. It would be, in my opinion, a completely different type playstyle otherwise, so i think full-game runs would benefit from having a category where you need to reset the level (still, not the whole run) if you get damaged even once, and another category where only the star matters (like in the run above). For IL i agree the difference is minute and not worth keeping many many extra times at all. Would it be possible to enable this extra category on full game runs without enabling it on IL runs too?