Hello, i would like to discuss one thing which is really weird. Recently i randomly got a skip of safe cracker on the second level - the dude managed to jump downstairs really quick and i didn't have to wait.

After that i tried to investigate what caused it. I found out that with a specific (extremely random) setup you can make him step on the railing and jump down without going around.

I tried several commands to find out how it's triggered and stumbled upon a command nav_dynamic 1. The default is "0". And that command allowed the dude to jump down with 99% success rate. However, i realize that this command is only available after developer 1 which is not allowed of course and i typed in nav_dynamic 0 and now the fun part - even though the command is off the safe cracker jumps down consistently. I reseted the game and it still worked. I have both developer 0 and nav_dynamic 0, but the dude falls down immediately, which saves time.

Since i still wanted to test the setup without that glitch i reinstalled the game and the dude now goes around again.

Now the true question. We kinda have 2 options now.

1. every runner of this game should go to console, type in developer 1 turn navigation on and then off and that should keep the glitch for the game forever. I think that's a bit sketchy, since at some point a runner basically should use cheats. However, i think this option is better than the second one
2. first of all we should find a way to check if this command has ever been changed (what is almost impossible) so that we can verify runs. Secondly, we should find a consistent setup for the skip without the command and that's gonna be a pain in the ass for sure. I spent an hour or so with a friend and we managed to force him to jump down 7 times out of 100 or so.

I would like to have a discussion or to hear some opinions, especially from moderators.

It seems the reason the navigation still has him jump down instead of taking the normal route is that, after setting nav_dynamic to "1", new .nav files will be created where the game data is (specifically in the navdata folder), and the game will continue to read the files in there even without nav_dynamic toggled on. Also, I don't think toggling developer on is actually necessary as it'll still build the navigation data, and was still able to get the guy to jump down.

I think this would be the only instance where it would be useful if it only affects AI followers.

I'm undecided on whether or not it should be allowed yet, but as you mentioned, it would require all new runners to specifically run that command before they do runs, or to download the new .nav file(s).

First of all I expect a little wave of new runners, since i've heard from a few of my friends that they are willing to try running kingpin and it's better if we come to some conclusion.

My opinion is that if we find a way to consistently do the skip it's preferred to perform it on nav "0" on clean version (the problem is that we can't really figure out if a runner is using clean version or not), but if it remains a random mess then I would prefer messing with that command.

Cool, it's awesome to see more people getting into learning this speedrun.

Having timed it, it saves about 13 seconds with the AI taking the shortcut. I've had similar luck trying to figure out a way to push him off the catwalk, and either the setup took too long to save any time or was too inconsistent. Out of ideas on what would make it more consistent without nav_dynamic.

It's kind of a weird thing, because if nav_dynamic still needed to be enabled during a run to see the benefit, I would be against using it without giving it much of a second thought.

I feel it'll be a little difficult to reach a definitive solution without more people participating in a discussion as to what console commands should/shouldn't be allowed, but for now, I think it might be best to not allow use of nav_dynamic, since it gives an advantage compared to someone with a fresh install (unofficial patch or no), and to make it a bit easier for others to start running the game.

"if nav_dynamic still needed to be enabled during a run to see the benefit" didn't really get what you meant, since you only have to enable it once and the file is overwritten.

About the last paragraph I kinda agree, so i'll change my nav files to default then.