As some of you probably know, we have recently been discussing on the discord how all of the new glitches affect our current categories. Most notably the multi-boxing save manip stuff and the blackout glitch. While most members agreed that the save manips should be banned the case is not as clear for blackout. My latest experiments showed that it requires lag to work. This means that blackout technically falls into the lag glitch category. At this point we have a few options to choose from. We can: 1a. Make blackout exclusive to the lag glitch category 1b. Same as 1a but allow the use of a macro for blackout 2a. Allow blackout in all categories 2b. Same as 2a but allow the use of a macro for blackout

Independently we also have the option of adding an all new "everything is allowed" category, which would include everything including blackout and also save manipulation.

As these decisions affect the entire community it would be nice to hear what everyone here thinks about it.

I think we should probably leave the leaderboard with IGT for now. IJ is only reasonably usable in any% and even then I don't think we should make it the main category because of how unstable the glitch is. Adding it to the leaderboard as a seperate category would be fine as far as I'm concerned, IF the glitch is usable on at least almost every machine. Otherwise it's just unfair to those who can't use it. Can anyone report the glitch not working so far? If so I would probably change my position from slightly for the new category to slightly against it.

Finding a stable way to get IJ would change the matter. Then we would certainly have to reconsider RTA vs IGT.

An independent discussion should also be had on the rules for any% using IJ (even if it's not on the leaderboards). Mostly about wether we allow New Game after the glitch or not and on the rules for timing. But there is still enough opportunity for that once we have decided on the leaderboard matter.

Oh wow, I didn't even think of testing it in Super Win the Game.

About the Categories: Currently any% doesn't allow the glitch anyway, just because we use in-game time. So I wouldn't mind having any% RTA and any% IGT. That doesn't sound too confusing. The Problem this mostly raises is that we now have the situation that each category technically needs a specification about the timing method, even if only one of the two is used (like how we probably will only have 100% IGT for now).

At this point we could actually have a more fundamental debate about changing our timing method to RTA entirely. Because then we would have clear categories again, i.e. any%, any% no IJ, etc. This would also allow us to include the password in the timing (I'm split wether or not that is a good thing though). Is changing the timing method even a feasible thing to do? I know several other games have changed to RTA over time, but I would imagine that to be coupled with a lot of organisational effort.

More on RTA timing. When would timing start? At first I thought this was obviousls, but I could imagine the following options:

1. When pressing the last menu item before the intro plays (for any% this would be on pressing "Normal")
2. When launching the game (like they do with SM64)
3. When skipping the intro. The "obvious" choice would be 1. since that is how IGT works as well. 2 is not really an option since we don't have a good way of resetting the game completely each time, but the nice thing about this is that IJ is definitly disabled each time you reset. So far I'm actually leaning towards option 3, simply because it makes it really obvious where to start timing. You just go to the first frame where the starting screen is visible and that's where you start timing. It also cuts out unnecessary resets due to bad intro skipping (which I at least already did for any% IGT and would most likely be very common in a 1 minute run).

Alternatively we can also just ban the glitch entirely because of the crashes and leave everything as it is. ;)

Hello my fellow runners, I'm not sure if this is the best place to put it, but i found an infinite jump glitch in the non-steam version. Sadly it requires quitting to the title, so it's unusable with in-game time (maybe in an RTA category?). Also doesn't work on steam.

I made a video about it:

I will also give you an explanation here though, in case you're too lazy to watch the video ;)

Here's how the glitch works:

1. You land on a moving or falling platform
2. While standing on the platform open the menu and quit to the title screen.
3. Continue or start a new game.

Now after you perform a mid-air (not just regular double jump from Spring Boots) you can keep jumping without having to land. Considered as mid-air jumps are: Spring Boot double jumps, Spider Glove wall jumps, or (and this is the most useful) during the 0.1 seconds grace period after running off a platform.

There is one other problem except making in-game time unusable. It crashes the game very frequently. When I start the game for the first time, it almost always crashes when pressing continue after activating the glitch. Which is probably why no one has found this yet. Subseqent activation after restarting work most of the time though. Most crashes seem to occur either on starting the game (new game or continue) or on screen transitions. On Steam it always crashes when pressing "Continue".

I also give a short first idea about what might make the glitch work in the video, but it's mostly based on speculation and a gross oversimplification of the logic involved. The basic idea is that the game still thinks you're on a moving or falling platform, since you quit and continued, so it keeps refreshing your double jump and extending your grace period. I might take a look at the source code some time in the future to see if i can figure this out. Maybe even find an alternative way to active the glitch without quitting? If someone else knows more, please let me know.

Hi, didn't check the forum before. So i'll join the conversation. Going Bottom after Spider Gloves is definitly faster (about 1.3 seconds). I only found out after checking myself that other people already tested it as well. ;-) Took the non Steam time down to 4:42 with the route change today (I'm going to submit it after i finish writing this). Here is my own comparison video with timer:

There is another small improvement in You Have to Start, but it's really difficult and only saves around 0.3 seconds. I don't know if anyone else has found this yet but here's the video:

I also experimented with 100% and was able to beat Mario's time. I haven't uploaded the run yet, since i wasn't satisfied with it. It would be very interesting to compare my route to yours, so let me know if you are interested in seeing my route. In that case i'll upload my current PB (if I can still find it).

Cheers.