In 16 star, does lblj save any time if used in this route: BiDW reds 1 canon less 2 wild blue 3 whomp 4 top of fortress 5 owless 6 wall kicks will work 7 lil penguin lost 8 top of pyramid 9 in the talons of the big bird SSL 10 lll reds 11 big bully 12 toad 13 rolling rocks 14 emergency exit 15?

it should, but I'm not sure. what's your PB without it? there's no way to tell without knowing your PB.

18.27 with doing that route with bomb clip instead of lll big bully, and no lblj

hmm... I'd say that it would save around 20 sec, but that's if you do it really fast, like WR fast.

it could save a good bit though. have you tried to learn the advanced route that the top 10 use? that's what I'm learning rn, and it should save a hell of a lot more time.

I struggle with pillar less, lll log star. So I think that's the only ones the advanced do?

you wouldn't be saving time since a lot of the timesave from LBLJ is skipping CCM entirely, also depends on how fast you do lblj but if you're not getting fast DW entries you are probably losing time

Done a few runs, and I get -10 sec on average tho :)

without super optimal play at a high level, I think its hard to kinda tell what does and doesnt save time when using LBLJ... I think @NicV is theoretically correct tho, the advantage of LBLJ is getting out of lobby as fast as possible... entering CCM door and spending 2 stars there is a good chunk of time. I'm not perfect with the metrics of 16, but I'm wondering if like... just doing 100 + reds in whomps than going to CCM? Like there are a lot of options in this range.

I've heard that LBLJ doesn't even really need to be implemented until you get a 16 minute PB... This also kind of brings into question of how consistent you are with LBLJ... I think on average, getting consistent at LBLJ requires a pretty competent level of skill... But if you ARE getting LBLJ consistently AND saving time over a run where you are doing things consistent in your own way... then ya, you are saving time. Know what I mean, jelly bean?

Meanwhile pless and sidehop are still going to give you an advantage for higher tier routes... so I just think within this range of PB you are at, if you feel like its saving you time, it probably is a little bit. Hopefully LBLJ doesn't plague the session with resets.

100 + Reds is only faster if you hit Kanno Cycle, see Kanno's No LBLJ PB if you want to see that but Kanno cycle is ABSURDLY difficult to get in runs.

LBLJ can be implemented whenever but like you said it's more about mentality, you can implement it when you won't be disheartened by the resets.

Your route wolfshaven is just the no lblj route but with DW in the beginning, LBLJ into darkworld is slower then just opening the door. If you are -10 it's because of gameplay not the route

@NicV thx for the clarification. This makes a lot of sense.

I think Nic is right, if you are getting -10, its likely just the nuances in the gameplay rather than the route.

LBLJ definitely saves time when applied appropriately... There is an argument to be made that doing it NOW will ultimately lead to better consistency over time... but without playing for a more crucial PB barrier, its probably pretty arbitrary. Go for it if it feels good!

It does feel good now, I get it pretty much consistent. The whomp's 100c is a idea. I did that alot in my 70 star time. Thanks all for the advice.

I could maybe see this saving like 3 seconds for skipping the DW door animation but nothing more than that