In order to have a fair system a few things need to be cleared up before issues arise. If you have anything you would like to input please do so in a befitting manner all opinions are welcome. If you have an issue that is not mentioned that you would to bring up please do so. Remember any that does take place can and will be subject to change, by comity like this, in the future.

Up to now we have been measuring runs according to RTA. Now it has become clear that loading times are playing a huge part in the final times people have been getting. If the games took an hour or so to run this wouldn’t be much of an issue but the saints row series of speedruns are 4-7 hours long and with quite a lot of loading screens. As a result the difference in people’s PC specs is going to play a huge part in who is competitive. In order to level the laying field it has been proposed we switch to using IGT to determine what the record is so as to reflect skill as muc as possible. 2, 3 and 4 all display the IGT upon saving. 1 however does not and with the final mission locking you out of the game and replacing you back at your last save I propose that the internal timer of the console is use to track time.

A second issue is what kind of verification we should allow. With only a few active runners of which only a couple are able to stream should we lessen the need for a video submission. This could be changed at a later time if the community does grow.

Also more clearly definded categories and sub categories, gimmick and the like. Up to now I have been reluctant to just throw up a set of rule for each category or even categories themselves as they are going to be wide in range with co-op that counts individually for each player, DLC, console and PC runs, single segment and segmented runs, multigame runs (PC trilogy, console Tetralogy, 1 and 2 or 3 and 4) and any combination of the above we could be looking at 10 plus possible categories of just any% variations add to that 100% and gimmick runs like SR4 all clusters these need to be set in stone.

1. Any% runs will normally be done on the fastest difficulty so in this case casual. Though Saints Row does allow you to switch between the difficulties durring gameplay so if you wanted to death warp you could switch to the hardest one in order to do it quickly. Any other runs on different difficulties will often be classed as a different run.

2. When to start and end the timer is generally going to be when you first gain control over the character and when you lose control upon completing the last mission so what you describe will be correct. We will have to come to a final decision on what timing method we will use before anything though. If we do in fact switch to using IGT the timer will just be vanity as the game is used to keep the official time itself.

All Saints Row games combine game statistics for all the games time rather than save by save though the upgrades themselves are game by game. There is a bug that sometimes carries over upgrade if you open and play in one game file then quit and start a new game you may get some of the benefits, In saints row 2 you can often get all gold’s in the races and unlock the race Bezier finishing just one race but that would make the run invalid as an Any% attempt as it has become a new game plus. If this is done in a run it will not be accepted.

The way I proposes game time is take is by saving the game after the credit have been skipped. Saints row 1 is not an issue it is a console only so real time can be used as load times are similar if not identical. The issue arises when PC ports are bought into play in 2, 3 and 4. Not only do load times vary greatly, in 3 I have seen one runner have load screens consistently 2-3 secs slower per load which adds up to near double figure mins over the run) but the game itself also runs far slower for some than other and frame rate lag comes into play at times.

Right now I am asking every runner to include this final save to record IGT so it is easy if we decide that a switch from RT is needed.

That's an valid request. It makes a lot of sense. I'd say that RTA is also applicable to SR2, at least for xbox, because the PC version is pretty screwy from what I heard. I'd even be leery of counting them because someones game could easily just run faster purely because of their processor clock speed. If we have a game running at 1.5x the speed of another, it's clearly a disadvantage. And yes, it's a legit bug but it's also grossly unfair because that's almost the same as saying the load times don't matter purely because of your hardware.

So I guess in short, I'd say that RTA is good for the consoles alone but definitely use in game time for anything on the PC.

I'd also agree about deleting all of the profile data between runs, at least for vanilla runs. It'd reduce a lot of headaches, I'd think.

OK thanks for the input SOB and FAR I am going to be drafting the rules for each run, something I have been reluctant to do with without input from other, and will put them in this thread sometime today or tomorrow if there is any semantics people would like added, cleared up or that you question an aspect of the rules speak up I want to ensure fairness for everyone.

Also I have put the basic any%/100% categories up yesterday I had a request of an additional misc category in SR4 of bad ending % if there are any other you want to see added e.g. tag runs, CD collections, cluster collection est. Ask and I’ll get the ones that are going to be run up.

Awesome! Thanks.

I'm also really glad I'm not the only one who's into speedrunning these games. I haven't found much interest for SR2 so that's gonna be fun glitch hunting but I need a capture device before anything.

SR 1 Any%: The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of the character following the opening cut scenes and ends as you enter the final marker to start the last cut scene. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content is permitted. Taxi travel is allowed to be used throughout the run. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

SR 1 100%: The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of the character following the opening cut scenes and ends as you enter the final marker to start the last cut scene you must have all activities, collectables and missions that give % completed before entering the final cut scene. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content is permitted. Taxi travel is allowed to be used. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

SR2 Any%: The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of the character after the character creation menu and ends on the fadeout after Dane Vogel dies. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content or pre-order code rewards are permitted. Taxi travel is allowed to be used throughout the run. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

Additional notes: It is advised that profile data is to be deleted between resets as effects of other save files have been known to bleed over if this does happen no matter how small or irrelevant the effect is the run is invalid. On completing a run it is advised you save the game to get the In Game Time this is for safety should the community ever decide to switch timing methods.

SR2 100%: The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of character the after the character creation menu and ends on completing the objective that gives you the final percentage for the game save to show 100%. All activities, collectables and missions that give % must be completed in order for it to be a 100% run. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content or pre-order code rewards are permitted. Taxi travel is allowed to be used throughout the run. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

Additional notes: It is advised that profile data is to be deleted between resets as effects of other save files have been known to bleed over if this does happen no matter how small or irrelevant the effect is the run is invalid. On completing a run it is advised you save the game to get the In Game Time this is for safety should the community ever decide to switch timing methods.

SR3 Any%: The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of the character following the opening cut scenes and ends on the fadeout after either Cyrus’ jet is killed or on the fadeout after Killbane is killed only one ending is required for completion in Any%. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content is permitted. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

Additional notes: It is advised that profile data is to be deleted between resets as effects of other save files have been known to bleed over if this does happen no matter how small or irrelevant the effect is the run is invalid. On completing a run it is advised you save the game to get the In Game Time this is for safety should the community ever decide to switch timing methods.

SR3 100% The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of the character following the opening cut scenes and ends on completing the objective that gives you the final percentage for the game save to show 100%. All activities, collectables and missions that give % must be completed in order for it to be a 100% run. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content is permitted. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

Additional notes: It is advised that profile data is to be deleted between resets as effects of other save files have been known to bleed over if this does happen no matter how small or irrelevant the effect is the run is invalid. On completing a run it is advised you save the game to get the In Game Time this is for safety should the community ever decide to switch timing methods.

SR3 Double Ending%: The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of the character following the opening cut scenes and ends on the fadeout after either Cyrus’ jet is killed or on the fadeout after Killbane is killed both endings are required for completion in Double Ending. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content is permitted. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

Additional notes: It is advised that profile data is to be deleted between resets as effects of other save files have been known to bleed over if this does happen no matter how small or irrelevant the effect is the run is invalid. On completing a run it is advised you save the game to get the In Game Time this is for safety should the community ever decide to switch timing methods.

SR4 Any%: The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of the character following the opening cut scenes and ends on the fadeout after Zinyak’s head is raise after killing him. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content is permitted. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

Additional notes: It is advised that profile data is to be deleted between resets as effects of other save files have been known to bleed over if this does happen no matter how small or irrelevant the effect is the run is invalid. On completing a run it is advised you save the game to get the In Game Time this is for safety should the community ever decide to switch timing methods.

SR4 100%: The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of the character following the opening cut scenes and ends on completing the objective that gives you the final percentage for the game save to show 100%. All activities, collectables and missions that give % must be completed in order for it to be a 100% run. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content is permitted. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

Additional notes: It is advised that profile data is to be deleted between resets as effects of other save files have been known to bleed over if this does happen no matter how small or irrelevant the effect is the run is invalid. On completing a run it is advised you save the game to get the In Game Time this is for safety should the community ever decide to switch timing methods.

SR4 Bad Ending%: The run is a real time attempt the timer starts when you gain control of the character following the opening cut scenes and ends when the game over screen is show after Red door is selected. The run must be started on a new game, no dlc content is permitted. Save warps are permitted throughout the run.

Additional notes: It is advised that profile data is to be deleted between resets as effects of other save files have been known to bleed over if this does happen no matter how small or irrelevant the effect is the run is invalid. On completing a run it is advised you save the game to get the In Game Time this is for safety should the community ever decide to switch timing methods.

These are a draft of the rule if there is any semantics people would like added, cleared up or that you question an aspect of the rules speak up I want to ensure fairness for everyone.

I have added a possible 3rd category for SR3 if it is wanted I'll add it as a misc category, if there are any other misc categories you would like added request it and it there is a demand for a board for it, it will be added. This could be new game plus variations, practice blocks of the game e.g. SR3 up to Return to Steelport or misc collectable runs or other gimmick runs.

I'd like to reiterate my concerns for RTA in SR2 though, or for a PC run in general. The PC port is incredibly broken and can speedup in direct proportion to your processor clock. Not only can this clearly affect comparisons between PC and Xbox and even PC players, but it might encourage players to oc their processors to even dangerous levels. I don't believe that this is a fair way to judge, especially in a run where even a .01 GHz increase can mean saving minutes if RTA is used. And this is also assuming that the PC port IGT will be biased according to actual game speed.

Also, on the same page, the Gentlemen of the Row Mod for PC. I'm assuming that's not accepted as well because that includes DLC, fixes MANY bugs, including the speedup bug noted above, and you can buy some vehicles for $1.

And just a clarification question (for SR2, specifically, I guess). I'm assuming it'll start after that fade-in (not when start is pressed), and end on the last bullet fired, not in the cutscene?

And again, thanks for writing up the rules! I'm SO happy that other people are still caring about running these games, even this late.

Ok I put up the rules for each categories of runs across the 4 games if you see any issues with them post here I can edit them as seen fit. I added the banning of using pre-release codes for SR2 it should have been obvious as they are added in the cheat section of the game but is a future argument avoided if they are banned now.

I also added times that were significant and have recorded proof but haven been submitted by the runner’s themselves.

I have added Gat out of Hell tentatively added as a new game in the Series though it is technically an expansion of SR4 it is a standalone expansion so it is cloudy.

I have yet to play it and do not see myself doing so any time in the near future so I am reluctant to add categories at this time. If there is anyone who is planning on running this game let me or FoxAndRavens know what categories are wanted and they will be added in time.

Changed the SR 2, 3 & 4 boards to include IGT as well as RT and added the IGTs that I know to the previous entries on the leader boards. For now records are still RTA owing to the fact savewarping is used in all 3 of these categories the downtime between these save and reloads will not be reflected so a route with many more unnecessary savewarps that are time losses in RT will not be fairly reflected in IGT.

Also added co-op categories for 3 & 4 as there was an indicated want for them, 2 will also be added should the same want for them arise.

Another quick question is there any objections to me adding my IGT records with the maximum RT to the boards?