HI there everyone,
I would like to suggest changing the timing rules, as I have gone over a few of the runs and the times are not consistent with current timing. I think the start timing should be one the very first frame that you see the white lettering to how many players to choose. You gain control when this appears. this would be accurate for all runs and it only affects the start timer by a few milliseconds. The end timing is good as the first frame you see the trash can is accurate. Let me know what you all think. If agreed then all runs will be re-timed and rules updated.
Thank you for addressing this issue.
Yes, we need to make the timing consistent across all runs on the leaderboard. A few years ago, the timing started at the vault opening which was weirdly specific and didn't make logical sense to the run. I would make sure that runs before this time have been retimed to start on the first frame of the white lettering.
I believe that the timing should end on the garbage can screen and not when Pennybags appears, since we have already lost control by this point anyway.
Also, the No Option Menu timing says it should start after selecting characters instead of gaining control which doesn't make sense either. Both categories should start once you gain control of the menuing in the vault.
I only have one submission to this game and probably won't have (m)any more submissions, but I figured I'd give my input. As long as the start and end is consistent between both categories and easy to retime, it should be fine. Whenever the text appears (8.2-ish seconds after pressing a/start) at the beginning, and the trash can scene at the end is good too. It's worth mentioning it's a good idea to keep it at the trash scene rather than the blue scoring screen to be fair to old runners who otherwise would've lost time to not skipping the trash scene. Additionally, pay attention to the framerate of the game, and adjust submissions to fit if you are retiming runs with 3 decimal places. My submission was adjusted to a .867, which is OK, but another was adjusted to a .999, which shouldn't be a possible frame to my understanding. If anything, if the game is running at 30fps, your frames should be x.000, x.033, x.067, x.100, x.133 .... x.867, x.900, x.933, x.967, x.000. It is not necessary to change the run comment noting that the time was adjusted. The runners will know. If you figure out how you'd like to approach this and would like help adjusting times, I'd be up to help out. I would like to point out finally that I don't think 2nd place is a tie. It is not inherent that a tie would happen based on what is known about the game. It seems that the CPU roll has something to do with when the console was turned on, but as there is an input to start the game later, you can vary your start time and have different results. I see it as similar to Super Mario Bros. runners waiting at the title screen for a handful of seconds before beginning the run, but the effect of waiting is far more frequent in this game. I'd like to see those runs get a second evaluation.
The top runs that are "tied" are definitely not the same. Given the current timing rules, Paul's run would be a 26.93 and Nester's may be a 27.00 flat. It's difficult to verify since the frame of the trash can without Pennybags isn't present in the youtube video, but his timer does begin 1 frame late.
Also a side note, my run's time was altered to a 25.999: a time that's not even possible to achieve playing a game that runs on 30 FPS, and clearly not a 25. I'll be resubmitting the run as a 26.06.
Thanks for your input. I agree that there is not tie for 2nd place. Yeah, the trash scene is probably the best for the end timer, as like you said would not be fair to the old runs on the board. I didn't mean to submit with the .999. Threw me off when I did so I took another look and that lead me to give the other runs a looks over, as I was confuse on the timing. Ty for your offer and input about the timings, which was interesting as I didn't know that. Going to go over all the runs and may need some help, if so, I’ll come to you for it :). Will update soon but would like to see if any more would like to voice their thoughts.
Yeah my run should be a 3rd place run after checking with the soon to be new rules. Feel bad for Paul, as he most likely has had the WR for awhile up till now but it is all getting sorted out now. Also, i see what you mean about my YouTube video. I have my old twitch video and it shows up there so, I will submit that video. Not sure what happened. Yes your run with the new rules brings it to a 26.100 using avidemux. Start time is 18.399, end time is 44.499, and total time is 26.100
This is just a suggestion to mitigate the confusion over timing rules for future runners: the rules need to be more clear.
The rules have a lot of unecessary and confusing information. All the rules need here is something like "Timing starts on the first frame of white text. Timing ends on first frame of garbage can scene."
yeah rules are bad and will be given a much needed fix. Just checked Paul's time he has a 26.933, so definitely timing wasn't check well back then before I got mod.
Don't worry about me and my time Nester, it's all good. I submitted my run over a year ago when I was pretty new at streaming/speedrunning and pretty much left it up to the mod to determine my run time. I don't even know if I knew how to frame count back then.
I endorse any and all changes to timing for this game to either make it easier for either future runners or mods to verify run times.
It is OK @PaulSaltine we got you. Easy fix to your time. So it has been a few days and no else seems to be speaking up on the matter so we are gonna go ahead and implement the new timing rules. @f1 @Jumpyluff and @Otterstone_Gamer gonna add you 3 as mods and if you want go ahead and update the runs ad rules would be a great help.
Updated the rules to make them more clear, timed all runs to the frame, and fixed the background theme and trophies for the game. I hope you find the page better as well.
