Hi!

I just want to share some of my chat information that I collected when tested difference between CIS and ENG/EU versions of game (EU versions are English, German, Italy, Polish etc.; CIS version use russian language). You can add extra difference or said that something is not correct in comments:

1. CIS version was released in 2003; ENG/EU - in 2004 (source: Download Angels Vs Devils (Windows) - My Abandonware)

2. Target lock: CIS doesnt have, ENG/EU versions have it.

3. Belze and Gabriel solo campaing: CIS doesnt have, ENG/EU versions have it.

4. Hitboxes: in CIS - npc and items have smaller hitboxes than in EU versions.

5. Camera movement: CIS has better vertical movement of camera (probably related vith target lock).

6. Jumping: CIS version have worse move-after-jump movement (almost always after jump there is a recovery frames; related with high of jump - if you land on the same X-cooridnate as on the start of jump, there is recovery frames). It ruins run-and-jump movement strat that is possible in EU versions.

7. Invisibility: in CIS version even on Easy difficulties evemies will attack you agressively, in EU version it works better.

8. Wisps. In CIS version they extremely hard, they always fly high when you near them. In EU - they are so passive.

Will add details if find anything new. Feel free to add extra things in comments. Good luck!

Polish version should also be considered a CIS version. I didn't play it for a long time, but I know for a fact there is only the free campaign mode and there is the landing-after-jump animation. The spawning animation is longer and the shield duration after spawning is longer as well. I think there is also no difficulty switch at all, but I'm not sure on this one.

And while I'm on this topic - I think we should reconsider how we name and categorize all game versions. I wanted to make a separate thread, but I decided to talk about it here. Basically, I think "ENG" and "CIS" is not enough to differentiate all the different releases of AvsD.

It's definitely not like every version of the game is a little different and unique - they are either fully different from the English version, or they are the same. So we have to think of a way to divide all game versions into two and appropriately name those version groups.

We should agree on something together. Here are some of my ideas:

• we call them English and NonEnglish, which is probably not very good. I didn't test all versions of the game, so I don't know if, for example, the Spanish version is like the English version, or like the Polish version.
• we call them Version 1 for the older release and Version 2 for the newer, more definitive release (V1/V2 or Ver1/Ver2 for short). This one is a lot better than the previous one for sure.
• we call them with a word, that would suggest if we're using the older or newer version, so for example NewVer/OldVer, LimitedVer/ExpandedVer or something similar along these lines.

Let me know what do y'all think. And if you have your own ideas, by all means write those down too. :)

Will review

Alright, so I did some digging and installed all versions of AvsD easily available on the internet, which are: English, Italian, Polish and Russian. There's definitely a Spanish and German version out there, but I couldn't find them.

I checked .exe attributes of every version mentioned above and it was either version 1.0.0.1, which is the older, more limited version, or 1.0.0.2, which is the newer, expanded version. The newer version was also described as v1.2, while older versions were just 1.0.0.1 for some reason. This just confirms it's safe to assume that every version that has two campaigns is instantly classified as the 1.0.0.2 / v1.2. The language doesn't matter - what matters are the differences, and they are not random.

So my suggestion is to change the current naming (ENG and CIS) to 1.0.0.2 and 1.0.0.1 respectively, but maybe instead of having them in subcategories with character sides, we could implement versions as annotations. By default 1.0.0.2 versions would be shown, and by changing settings we could easily view 1.0.0.1 runs. But I'm not entirely sure on that one, gotta think about it.

Hopefully there's no need to discuss it further; it's pretty much self-explanatory. I'm gonna make a new guide post soon about chosing a version to speedrun. I will mention the most important differences and stuff.

If so, old patch run will be redundant at all as they are much harder for speedrun. New patch run will always have better time. If so, we should check categories name from eng angels to angels 1.2, cis angels to cis 1.0.0.1. if polish version is 1.0.0.2 - we can check difference and add this version as well; if it's completely the same as 1.0.0.1 (initial cis Ru version) - we could skip adding it. I actually dont mind to add it as separate subcat if any difference are within these versions

There is absolutely no need to clutter this page and add subcategories or annotations for each language, if that's what you meant. As I was trying to explain the differences are always the same, meaning all 1.0.0.1 versions are the same, and all 1.0.0.2 versions are the same. The only difference is the language. English and Italian versions have different languages, but they both contain two campaigns, faster spawn time, shorter shield, and all the same quirks of 1.0.0.2. Similarly Polish and Russian have the same quirks that make them worse versions - only one campaign, slower respawn, no difficulty switch in training and multiplayer and so on. Therefore we should divide runs by game version, not language. Yes, 1.0.0.1 will always be slower, but it's still a whole, playable game and a complete version - as speedrunners we should still be interested in pushing it to its limits. ;) So I think it's best to rename Angels/Devils ENG and Angels/Devils CIS to just Angels/Devils subcategory on full game runs and add versioning as annotation. By default 1.0.0.2 runs will be shown with ability to show 1.0.0.1 runs too. Runners will be forced to choose which version they played when they upload a run. Let me know if you're fine with that. :) And we should implement that into level runs as well, but I'll mention it in my upcoming forum post about level runs ruleset.

No subcategories for languages, of course. Only for versions. As I said - rename current versions from languages to versions. Do what you think is best, I'll review once i back in game

Okay so I tried annotations and decided it's best to just keep versioning in subcategories after all. As you rightfully pointed out 1.0.0.2 runs would always be visible because they are faster by default, so it's better to make subcategories just for 1.0.0.1 runs, as they are different enough to be worth speedrunning on their own and being separated from 1.0.0.2 runs. So at the end of the day nothing really changed, just renamed Angels/Devils ENG to Angels/Devils (v1.2) and Angels/Devils CIS to Angels/Devils (v1.1) and it's good that way. And also implemented the same thing to level runs. So problem solved. :)

LGTM